Why Bargain Travel Sites May No Longer Be Bargains (backchannel.com) 140
Aggregators like Expedia have made us lazy -- and we may be missing out on the best deals. From a report on Backchannel: Most of us rely on metasearch engines, like Priceline, Expedia, or Travelocity, which typically use dozens (sometimes as many as 200) of online travel agents, called OTAs, and aggregators to find the best deals. (A metasearch engine and an aggregator are interchangeable terms -- they both scour other sites and compile data under one roof. An OTA is an actual travel agency that actually does the booking and is the lone site responsible for everything you buy through them.) We rely on these sites because we assume they have the secret sauce -- the most powerful search engines, tweaked by superstar programmers armed with the most sophisticated algorithms -- to guide us to the cheapest options. With a single search, you can feel assured that you are paying a rock bottom price. Over time, however, the convention has flipped. As competition among the sites heated up, the hard-to-believe cheap fares required some filtering. A too-good-to-be-true fare ($99 to Europe from California) usually came with a catch (the $400, indirect, ticket home). And as the business models that on which these aggregators rely are getting tighter, the deals are getting worse. How can you be certain you're getting the lowest quote? The short answer is, you can't.
Lowest price - shittiest room (Score:5, Informative)
I can tell you from working in the hotel industry... the lower priced rooms are the worst rooms. Either they're the most worn, something's wrong with the A/C, or they're adjacent to noise sources. A much better recipe for a pleasant hotel stay is to find a hotel in the general price range you're looking for, then go to the hotel site and select a room based on your budget.
Re:Lowest price - shittiest room (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop posting sense.
Re:Lowest price - shittiest room (Score:5, Interesting)
Same goes for airfare but use multiple computers. The airlines use cookies and if you visit the same site multiple times they raise the rates on you. So look and then go to a clean computer to book it.
Incognito (Score:5, Interesting)
The airlines use cookies and if you visit the same site multiple times they raise the rates on you. So look and then go to a clean computer to book it.
Whenever I'm looking for travel I browse first and when I decide I want to buy something, I open a Private Browsing window to search one last time for the item, to make sure they are not charging me more in the main screen... of course IP tracking could get around that but I've not seen evidence that happens yet.
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Not at all, they just do not help with the cookies the websites drop (if I moved to a VPN using the same browser it would not help).
It would help if they were basing anything on shared IP's, but I don't think they are doing so because (a) I've not seen that in limited testing I did a while ago, and (b) there are still enough people going through nats and things that are sharing IPs with others that I don't think they would alter price by IP... that will probably change with IPV6 though, then a VPN would be
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Same goes for airfare but use multiple computers. The airlines use cookies and if you visit the same site multiple times they raise the rates on you. So look and then go to a clean computer to book it.
Always have a second browser on your system to make the actual booking.
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This is required anyways, because with a sane level of security precautions and blockers you can't order from random sites. Unless you travel a lot, it is quicker to use a "burner" browser without the blockers than it is to dredge through 125 different javascript sites to figure out what is safe to enable. And if you put the extra browsers data in /tmp then it won't even have history. But even without that step, it still won't expose your regular browser data and history (eg, banking)
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Yup. Chrome is my whore browser. I know it'll just work with any random trash site because Chrome is a whore and lets sites do whatever they please, and if a site is tested at all it's tested in Chrome.
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I've noticed (at least with United), once you find a flight there is about 15 mins to buy before the price jumps. You have to wait a couple hours for it to go back down.
Personally, I've never had any luck with these margin sites. I usually use Kayak which links directly to the airline.
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This is why I bought an RV. The hotel industry is just full of scumbags. From hotels that don't give a shit about bedbugs (or just don't put in the money to have their rooms checked on a regular basis, or worse, think they don't exist) to hotels that think because the customer paid less they deserve a shit room, and then hotels that regularly walk customers, and bullshit resort fees to pay for non-optional things that were advertised in the pamphlet (without the resort fees... which are only mentioned on
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I do care however of the price of driving around, flying to someplace else and renting a room is so much cheaper.
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That's not a bug, it is a feature. It helps the idiots to know I'm not interesting enough to be worth pestering.
When I rent a yurt in the State Park, which is just like an RV parking spot but with a canvas house, the GPS takes me from home all the way to the park, including useful lane change warnings, tells me which turns to take inside the park, and guides me right to the correct spot. And if I didn't have that, they gave me a map when I checked in.
And at night, it is way quieter than a hotel room, becaus
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Nothing, but I'd recommend sleeping *in* it instead.
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Actually, there are laws in several cities and states banning sleeping IN vehicles but ON them may be perfectly legal. Reddit has a sub on van living [reddit.com].
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My parents like to road trip and they use a regular looking cargo van for that very reason.
RVs are harassed much too often.
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This is why I bought an RV. The hotel industry is just full of scumbags ...
All evil comes to the customer who books travel through third-party sites. Protip: there is not really any such thing as an online travel agent.
If your trip is too complicated to book directly through airline and hotel sites, go a real travel agent who has an office in your town.
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same thing on hotel sites. was in atlantic city last year and all the rooms are divided up between different sections of the hotel and you pay more for oceanview. and that's just a peek at the ocean. once you book they pester you with upgrades for a better view of the ocean
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What I meant to convey, which I did poorly, is that inside of those different room classes (ocean view, parking lot view, etc), the worst rooms are the ones that end up discounted on the travel sites. So you may have ocean view rooms that all go for $200/night and parking lot views that go for $100. The $125 ocean view room on Travago will be the crappiest one inside of its room class.
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when priceline first started i read about the business model and they said it was based on yield management and getting rid of inventory that would have been lost in the end
lately with everything in travel being all about price it seems all these sites do nothing more than allow everyone to price their stuff and get rid of the annoying customers who try to sneak in upgrades or complain about their room
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15 years ago people would complain about facing the dump or the noisy AC and it was a game of musical rooms moving people around until someone took the room
now they just price those rooms for people who don't care about it and let the rest of us pay a small premium to be locked into a better room
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Absolutely. The "rack rate" on the back of the door, in US hotels, just represents the highest room rate the hotel can ever legally charge. So, of course, the hotel keeps that at an absurdly high price. You should always expect huge discounts off of that, it's not really even usable for any sort of price comparison. The rate might hit that on one or two days a year, such as new years at certain hotels.
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Well, depends. In many hotels I have found the 50% off discounted web-prices matches that of the stock price of the day.
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The hotel website often offers the same prices as Priceline, Expedia etc, but not always. When you walk into a hotel off the street you are paying "rack rate", which produces the maximum possible profit for the hotel.
You can actually get your laptop out and book the room from Priceline in front of the receptionist - hey presto, your room price just halved. I have done this myself several times. And no, this won't be some inferior room, simply one of the rooms from the normal stock.
Don't believe everything y
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I see why you can't believe what you read on the internet, it's because you can't read. I never said to compare rates _at the hotel desk_. You also don't seem to understand that, inside of a single class of room in the hotel's stock, that the rooms vary in quality. If a $600 rack rate room that normally sells for $200 discounted is made available to you for $150, I promise you that when you check in you will get a crappier room than the guy that paid $175 for a room in the same room class.
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I used hoteltonight.com when I was last in San Francisco. Found a cheap room at a good hotel. Went to the front desk and asked them to match the price. They checked and said they couldn't match it so go ahead and book it on hoteltonight. The room was a good room, no problems. The hotel wasn't very full.
I found it odd that they wouldn't match the price since they have to pay a commission to the web site. I've used this tactic at other hotels and they usually try to match the price.
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Oh yes! My hotel used to price all rooms the same by the number of beds, and the worst rooms (on the wings not facing the river or the few odd rooms that don't have balconies) were saved for last when we had to use them. Now, they are offered at a lower price, and are usually taken by people using third-party billing sites like Expedia who blindly click on the lowest price then become upset when they realize what they got, and we can't change the deal because they didn't pay us in the first place.
The thing
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We can't simply check repeat guests in from history—we (and they) have to enter their personal info from scratch every single time.
What kind of "personal info" is that? I've never had to do anything but flash an ID and hand over a credit card to cover incidentals, except maybe if I'm traveling overseas and they need passport details.
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But if I booked my travel with a site like Expedia (as per the topic), you already have all that information. No need to "enter it from scratch." It's always there on the computer when I show up at the front desk. A little hand-waving and they hand me my keys.
Yeah, the "by the hour" hotels you stay at don't ask for or keep any info, but have you ever checked into a Marriott?
I can't count how many hotels I've checked into using aggregate services like the ones described. Never once have I seen the poor, quivering guy at the front desk have to take down my personal details with a quill pen, and I've never had to fill them o
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Address, license plate number, co-guests occasionally, and the rate they had in the past (which doesn't apply to third-parties, but makes it easier to set up our regular guests.) At least their phone number comes through from Expedia, though half the time there is a leading zero or one that has to be edited before our system recognizes it as a phone number. It doesn't sound like much, but it slows things down when people are lined up on a busy night. We normally get that info when they call us to make a res
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You know ... I suppose one thing from my POV is that I can't remember ever staying at a hotel where I liked the room so much that I consciously booked the same hotel again, next time I was in town. And if I do repeat stays (ugggh, Las Vegas) it's usually because I have to stay at that hotel for reasons of proximity, and being made to stay there doesn't make me feel like their "honored guest" or anything. I guess I've just never bought into that culture of "premium service" at hotels. To me, my room's mostly
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Aye, mine is a 100+ room three-star (enclosed keyed entry to the building but no valet staff beyond one House Person), with a final price around $100-150 per night. We try to get their loyalty, but many people are passing through, often using those third-party services. Lately they seem to be only a few bucks below our normal rates until sales come up and I start seeing -$20 rooms in the "Restaurant Roof Vent View" rooms. :-
The funny thing to me is the formal-ish atmosphere. I have a convenience store backg
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for a pleasant hotel stay
I don't stay in hotels. I sleep in hotels. I stay in a city. I would much rather pay rock bottom prices for a hotel and spend my money enjoying the place I'm exploring than wasting money on crap like an airconditioning.
If the hotel has a bed it gets a tick. A toilet and shower is also required, but not necessarily in the same room.
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And for some people (e.g. myself) I have no problem with noise. Actually bars are generally quite good because what typically does come through often resembles either white noise or thumping bass with very repetitive beats which is easier to fall asleep to than someone next door. Worst case is a sports bar during a big football event but that is more than likely to get me to get up and go join in than anything else.
Point is there are some aspects of the super discounted rooms that really appeal to traveller
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try doing that when it's full
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There's exceptions, for sure. It's another general rule - in addition to the best rooms in a given room class going to the least-discounted guests, they'll also fill the better rooms first if occupancy permits. The idea, on both counts, is to reduce exposure to refunds or additional discounts. In the $100 room class at "The Love Palace", the $50 guest gets a better room than the $30 guest. However, if occupancy in that room class is only 50%, they'll fill the rooms in order from best to worst.
Stay loyal to your preferred airline (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Stay loyal to your preferred airline (Score:5, Insightful)
Quickest way to kill my loyalty is treating loyalty like a currency. I pay you for good service everytime. Not just for the times I present a magic "gimme decent service" card.
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Quickest way to kill my loyalty is treating loyalty like a currency. I pay you for good service everytime. Not just for the times I present a magic "gimme decent service" card.
I've never had a problem with poor service when I use travel websites but the GP is correct. You generally will get free upgrades, have priority baggage handling for airlines, and other perks that make your service amazing. Not everyone can get their bags first.
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Loyalty IS a currency. You're paying for the same service at the same rate. Loyalty is something extra. You don't get good service with a loyalty card, you get extras.
If you're expecting shit for free then you're being unreasonable. If you're expecting benefits for being a loyal customer, then that's something quite different.
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Quickest way to kill my loyalty is treating loyalty like a currency. I pay you for good service everytime. Not just for the times I present a magic "gimme decent service" card.
And any loyalty programme worth joining does exactly the opposite to that. The only major loyalty programme I'm a part of is Singapore Airlines Krisflyer programme. Now to get points on Krisflyer, you pretty much have to fly regularly on Singapore Airlines. Especially if you want actual status (that gives you access to lounges on an economy ticket). Singapore Airlines provides good service, even if you're not a Krisflyer member.
The problem that people have is that they like to play the service providers
THIS.... I just booked a trip for August... (Score:3)
I just went through booking a flight last week. I used Expedia and Kayak to look around. One of them found a much better deal (called a hacker fare) where you are essentially buying two one-way tickets on different airlines. It was $100 cheaper than anything else, which was $400+. Then I did a search for reviews, and everything said to stay away. The "price guarantee" is true, but if there are schedule changes - and you can be assured there will be - then you have to pay a change fee, or some other ty
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One of them found a much better deal (called a hacker fare) where you are essentially buying two one-way tickets on different airlines.
Ended up doing something similar last year, but booking flights seperately through CheapoAir and WestJet. When one flight changed, we had to [shudder] SPEND THE NIGHT IN TORONTO.
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50% the cost, 50% of the time in the air, and a lower total travel time. Always check all the possibilities.
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In general you are correct, but if you use a nice OTA they'll eat it. Case in point: Tried to take a Cambodia Air flight + hotel package I'd booked through Expedia, and when the plane broke they ... did not move expeditiously to arrange a replacement. So I took the next flight out on my own dime. Complained about that to the airline they said nope booking V class no refunds no credit doesn't matter the plane never took off. Kinda miffed. Whined to Expedia.co.th and they were like OH WHY YES FULL FLIGHT REFU
people know how to run a business (Score:5, Informative)
try booking a kid friendly cruise a year out during a school break, the prices are sky high because everyone is using big data and whatever to know when and where people are traveling. it's been this way for decades. In the 90's airline tickets to Italy would magically drop by 50% in October.
After priceline came out almost 20 years ago people learned to make money off the cheapskates. They will advertise cheap hotel rooms but those have the worst views of the garbage dump.
my inlaws thought they got a deal on a cruise one time and told me to go to some russian travel agent to book a room and take the kids. turned out it was a school week right before the Easter break
try getting a discount at Disney in July or August
Easy to get a cheap room in Vegas as long as you're there on Wednesday. Actually it's the best day since the place isn't packed full
same with cheap airline tickets and any other vacation. go outside the peak season. my wife and I had a good deal in Negril on our honeymoon cause we went in October. Downside is some things were closed and some tours not running cause of the lack of people
Re:people know how to run a business (Score:5, Funny)
They will advertise cheap hotel rooms but those have the worst views of the garbage dump.
That's a pisser. I'd rather pay a little more and get the best view of the garbage dump.
That's terrible (Score:3)
They will advertise cheap hotel rooms but those have the worst views of the garbage dump.
Even in a budget room I'd expect a good view of the garbage dump.
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They will advertise cheap hotel rooms but those have the worst views of the garbage dump.
Most of the time, I don't care. Whether I'm on holiday or on business, if I'm spending a lot of time in my hotel room then I'm doing something wrong. Give me a comfortable bed, a clean and quiet room, and I'm happy. One hotel I stayed in gave you a $5 drink token for their bar for every day that you didn't use the housekeeping service: great, because I don't make the room messy enough to want someone to tidy it in a week-long stay and I don't want someone moving things in the room.
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They will advertise cheap hotel rooms but those have the worst views of the garbage dump.
Most of the time, I don't care. Whether I'm on holiday or on business, if I'm spending a lot of time in my hotel room then I'm doing something wrong. Give me a comfortable bed, a clean and quiet room, and I'm happy. One hotel I stayed in gave you a $5 drink token for their bar for every day that you didn't use the housekeeping service: great, because I don't make the room messy enough to want someone to tidy it in a week-long stay and I don't want someone moving things in the room.
There are rare cases where an amazing view is nice. For instance, I once had an amazing hotel in Paris with the best view of the Eiffel tower. Did I stay in the hotel to admire this view? No. But when I was tired from a long day and was relaxing before bed, it was nice to sit on the balcony for 30-60 minutes and enjoy the view. I certainly would not go out of my way for this view, but it made the trip extra memorable. For an unusually special occasion, I would be willing to go out of my way to have a n
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I work for a company that does price aggregation similar to the Priceline/Expedia/Travelocity model (those are all owned by the same parent company, btw - they're mostly just different user experiences from the same base data). I feel like there are two major problems with the "deal aggregator" business model.
1) Once your aggregator gets big enough, the businesses listed on your site realize the value in gaming the default/common sort criteria so that they will show up closest to the top wherever possible.
Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
When I search at the metasearch travel sites, they show me round trip prices. Do people book flights without looking at the actual price? If it seems high, try searching for two one way trips, and compare. Is that rocket science? Can people actually compare two numbers and determine which one is higher? Or is that too much to ask these days?
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes - it does seem to be a rather simple formula....
1. Check price direct from airline/rail company/hotel company
2. Check price on travel meta-search
3. Compare prices
4. Check that there are no significant differences in what you are getting
5. Pick lowest price.
A little more effort than use meta-search of your choice an ask no questions but not massively. And the meta-search does basically what its name suggests - takes a little leg work out of search through multiple sites whist claiming a percentage for doing so. More often then not using one throws me a bit of a saving and sometimes I go direct anyway just so I get to use my favoured brand. It depends on the extent of the saving.
To me it's not too far apart from checking Amazon's price before buying a book or DVD in a store. It gives me a bit of surety that I'm not paying over the odds for something. And If I am then I know I was almost prepared to pay over the odds so I probably _really_ want to buy the thing online :)
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Yes - it does seem to be a rather simple formula....
1. Check price direct from airline/rail company/hotel company
2. Check price on travel meta-search
3. Compare prices
4. Check that there are no significant differences in what you are getting
5. Pick lowest price.
6. Hotel allocates you the worst rooms.
Basically because you're punishing the hotel by making them pay commission, the hotel is not going to do any favours for you. A lot of hotels will give you the same price if you contact them. In my experience, booking through Expedia/Pricelilne or their myriad of sub brands is rarely cheaper though.
The thing is, it's nothing like buying a DVD from Amazon because that's the same product. You're not buying a product when you book a flight or accommodation, you're b
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Cheapest-Fastest Round Trip Connection ... (Score:3)
is still email.
Re:Cheapest-Fastest Round Trip Connection ... (Score:5, Funny)
is still email.
Great Idea, I'll send an email to Florida for my next vacation
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is still email.
Great Idea, I'll send an email to Florida for my next vacation
Be careful though, if you send it via AOL your email might not return until the following summer.
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is still email.
Great Idea, I'll send an email to Florida for my next vacation
T is will reduce, but not eliminate, your chances of getting hit with fake rental car damage fees.
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"Crazy way to travel, spreading a man's molecules all over the universe!" - Dr McCoy
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"Crazy way to travel, spreading a man's molecules all over the universe!" - Dr McCoy
“I teleported home last night with Ron and Sid and Meg
Ron stole Meggy's heart away and I got Sidney's leg.” - D Adams
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Great Idea, I'll send an email to Florida for my next vacation
...and you'll get a reply "Having a great time! Wish I was here!"
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Wow, Florida. Dream big!
No, dream fast! A lot of it may not be around much longer.
Aren't most of the big names the same company? (Score:2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedia,_Inc.
Expedia.com, Hotels.com, Hotwire.com, trivago, Venere.com, Travelocity, Orbitz, and HomeAway. This may explain why the prices are stagnant. Also, when they actually were cheaper it was before the big hotel chains/airlines had a decent web interface that was hooked up the reservation system. Now, its generally cheaper to go direct since there is no middleman.
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I never check those kind of sites now to book an hotel, be it in NYC or elsewhere, I call the hotel to make a reservation, and if I check by after those "bargain travel sites", I realize they are all more expensive than what the hotel is offering!
Re:Aren't most of the big names the same company? (Score:4, Insightful)
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if true you can usually get some lowest price warranty on the bargain web site
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if true you can usually get some lowest price warranty on the bargain web site
Most of the time for the hotel I'm looking at, the lowest price on the bargain site is the same as the price offered by the hotel chain to their loyalty club members. So there's really no reason to use the bargain sites except, as someone above said, as an initial filter to find one in the area that meets your budget.
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Except that it's often easier to book through the bargain web site instead of registering to the loyalty club
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For hotels that has been my experience as well, I've never had a hotel price match the online rate, they'd rather give me a lower price AND pay the commission, than just give me the lower price.
Airlines on the other hand, I've never managed to find a third party price lower than the price straight from the airline, so I've pretty much given up booking airfares through any third party site.
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Where I live, it's easy, there are only 2 airlines, check both and you know you have the highest rate that the lack of competition will allow. (in reality they are always dollar for dollar identical on all routes anyway)
Now if you're flying overseas, there's actual competition and it might be worth checking, but domestically, check one of the 2 airlines and you know the price.
Our government keeps blocking any effort by other airlines to enter our market and provide competition.
dubious wrt air travel (Score:1)
The airline fare rules are published in a language of their own. They are semi-public, to the booking cartel at least, not proprietary per airline. There is only one company with software capable of searching these fare rules for itineraries: ITA software. An instance of it is available in raw form on https://matrix.itasoftware.com/ or in a dumbed-down form that's in practice more powerful because it's faster due to precalculation and has a fancy GWT UI on https://flights.google.com/. All of the other s
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I usually check both Expeida type sites, and SouthWest... remembering that for just about any non-Southwest airline, I need to add $25 per checked bag each way to the price. Southwest is usually cheaper even before considering the checked baggage gouge from the other airlines.
Modified by I refuse to fly American Airlines at any price... though they're usually more expensive anyway. (Long story involving AA not getting me to even one connecting flight, either way, not able to find baggage containing my CPA
Use them with care (Score:2)
I still use them, but then I go to the airline pages and check the prices there. Sometimes individual airlines have better options, more often not.
Where I travel (EU), you can sometimes save money or get better times for round-trips by buying two one-way tickets. That used to be nearly impossible, so perhaps something has changed. I avoid "cheap" airlines because at least in Europe they are no longer really that cheap and the lousy service and delays are not worth it.
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I avoid "cheap" airlines because at least in Europe they are no longer really that cheap and the lousy service and delays are not worth it.
Same in the US. Once you pay the "Breath O^2" and "Carry on something larger than a gallon ziploc bag" fees you end up paying just about as much as a regular airline for a much poorer experience.
Service (Score:2)
Travelocity and Expedia are the same thing (Score:2)
They're not a bargin anymore (Score:2)
Human travel agent still king (Score:2)
Kids these days think just because they have access to the data, it makes them domain experts. Access to stock prices - instant stock broker. Access to booking sites - instant travel expert. The truth is, expertise still takes time to build up, and it will be another eon before AI can understand custom needs and wishes, rather than make clumsy Clippy suggestions.
So, find a local, preferably independent, travel agent. Go there in person, sit down for a coffee. Then let a professional sort out all the hurdles
Still use a real live travel agent (Score:2)
I go to the sites, Search for the best deal I can online - Grab a screenshot, call my travel agent and tell them what expedia is able to do and see if she can better that.
It has the advantage of giving me the best price available plus the assurances of having a professional handle the transactions for me.
Aggregators vs. OTAs (Score:2)
The original article confuses OTAs and Aggregators. Expedia and Travelocity are OTAs and have a login to Sabre and other systems as travel agencies. They can book and service your trip. They also use Sabre and others to do the search against the fares and schedules databases, as well as online connectivity to airlines for availability. Kayak, Skyscanner and others are aggregators.
BTW - I led the algorithm design of Sabre's Linux-based search engine about 15 years ago - Travelocity, Expedia and others drove
Rewards and loyalty programs (Score:2)
Many have mentioned that these days it is better to book directly through the airline or hotel web site especially if you are a member of their loyalty or rewards programs.
BUT! It seems that just when enough time has passed to allow you to accumulate sufficient points to spend on yourself, they either change or discontinue the program and render your points useless.
Repeat (Score:2)
AltaVista succeeded and is profitable to this day. How is this not going to work??? /sarcasm
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Maybe your company is willing to do that, but I've never found a single hotel willing to discount their price to match the online prices for the same hotel. End result, hotel gives me the lower price, AND they pay the commission to the site I found the lower price through. I offer them the option to save the commission, no hotel has ever taken me up on it.