Disney Patents a Piracy Free Search Engine 164
wabrandsma writes with this excerpt from Torrentfreak: Disney has just obtained a patent for a search engine that ranks sites based on various "authenticity" factors. One of the goals of the technology is to filter pirated material from search results while boosting the profile of copyright and trademark holders' websites. A new patent awarded to Disney Enterprises this week describes a search engine through which pirated content is hard to find. Titled "Online content ranking system based on authenticity metric values for web elements," one of the patent's main goals is to prevent pirated movies and other illicit content from ranking well in the search results. According to Disney their patent makes it possible to "enable the filtering of undesirable search results, such as results referencing piracy websites." Disney believes that current search engines are using the wrong approach as they rely on a website's "popularity." This allows site owners to game the system in order to rank higher. "For example, a manipulated page for unauthorized sales of drugs, movies, etc. might be able to obtain a high popularity rating, but what the typical user will want to see is a more authentic page," they explain. Probably not a good place to look for a grey-market copy of Song of the South.
Algorithms Can Be Patented (Score:5, Informative)
Isn't a search engine just applying a ranking algorithm to content? Didn't think algorithms could be patented.
This is great (Score:5, Insightful)
Standard technical measures (Score:4, Interesting)
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Nah, all the major search engines would have to do is show a judge and/or jury just how bad of a failure go.com was, and therefore why Disney has no business either running a search engine or setting rules for one.
Re:Algorithms Can Be Patented (Score:5, Interesting)
Isn't a search engine just applying a ranking algorithm to content? Didn't think algorithms could be patented.
Regardless of whether it's patentable... does anybody really need a search engine that only returns sites "certified" by Disney? Really?
I trust Disney to certify sites about as much as I would trust government to do it. Which is to say: about zero.
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I can see a lot of demand for it, actually. Think of it like Disney TV channels. Content certified as OK for young children. At most a bit of mild peril, or a particularly bad Disney song.
Disney must be the most popular babysitter in the world. Now they offer a "safe" (read: mind rotting) internet experience too.
Re:Algorithms Can Be Patented (Score:5, Informative)
Then how come I don't know how it works?
Google doesn't patent it - they keep it secret.
Google PageRank is patented. http://www.google.com/patents/... [google.com], by Stanford where Page developed it, and which licensed the patent to Google for shares worth $336 million. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P... [wikipedia.org]
Re:Algorithms Can Be Patented (Score:5, Funny)
What I'd like to know is why Disney would create a search engine that won't find any of Disney's products, and instead take you to the original stories they stole from to make their animations?
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They are patenting it, not implementing it. This way no one else can implement it.
Re:Algorithms Can Be Patented (Score:4)
This is Disney. They're going to get the law changed to FORCE everyone to implement it (and of course, pay them the requisite licensing fees).
It's how Disney got Macrovision through back in the early days (it failed on early VCRs because their AGCs were slow, so by forcing lawmakers to have it implemented, everyone had to tighten things up).
You know Disney's heading to the lawmakers shortly to get Google etc., to have it in.
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+5 Funny, +5 Informative, +5 Insightful and +5 Flamebait.
Thanks, I won't have to read the rest of the comments now.
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They formulated the ranking of websites as an eigenvalue problem. Not sure how that would be patentable.
http://www.math.cornell.edu/~m... [cornell.edu]
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Google's page ranking system might have been innovative enough to deserve a patent - if it was the first automated, algorithmic system of its sort. Once you've got page ranking out there, though, a new ranking algorithm is not a technical innovation at all. Sure, Disney should be allowed to create such a system - but why on earth should they be allowed to patent it? And why would they even care to patent it - other than to keep from being prevented from building it by somebody else gaming our lousy pate
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Here's the patent [google.com] and the Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] also gives a reasonable description. Otherwise I believe they've also published the basics behind the algorithm.
Re:Algorithms Can Be Patented (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't know how it works, it's only because you haven't bothered to look it up.
Not exactly. You only know how PageRank worked at the very beginning, when it was patented. That is far from "the" Google search algorithm these days. It remains one of the most important ones, and possibly one that's fundamental to how Google's whole search engine works, but they have many, many other algorithms that govern search results today. Most of these are not patented, mainly for the reasons mentioned earlier: If Google patented them, it would have to disclose how they work. Instead, they maintain them as trade secrets, like the formula for Coca-Cola.
In Disney's case, I think it's not really interested in competing with Google. It would much rather Google, Bing, etc look at its patent, say "OK, I can do that if it will get Disney off my back" and implement the patent for little-to-no royalty fees.
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Erm, what? I know how PageRank works because I read about it as a technical paper in a Computing Journal in 1998, before Google was started as a company. That said, I don't know what came first - the paper or the patent. Pretty sure though that the paper came first, or was at least simultaneous to the patent filing. Finally, most of the stuff in the Google ranking mechanism is as much an algorithm as a kernel is an algorithm. It's a host of ranking modules, tweaks, weights, heuristics, clean-up jobs, mainte
Flood of immigrants (Score:3)
Ironically, this is an incredible boost for other nations which don't subscribe to such idiocy
But how practical is it for affected U.S. citizens to obtain work visas in said other nations?
Actually no... (Score:5, Interesting)
"...enable the filtering of undesirable search results" - Undesirable for whom?
"...but what the typical user will want to see is a more authentic page" - That's an interesting assertion, but I don't think that's actually true.
"...rely on a website's "popularity."" - Popular represents what people want, not these bogus 'authentic' (read 'expensive, DRM infested frustrations') metrics.
This basically boils down to "unless we sell it there's no way to get it". An interesting idea, but fail.
Actually no... (Score:2)
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When they try to compete with "free", then they'll have figured it out. Maybe they should be a filter on "DRM" to filter out DRM from search results.
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And how exactly will it tell the original author vs a megacorp that stolen the artwork (basically the only case of copyright theft as it deprives the author of his work rather than just potential revenue)?
Something tells me it will declare the latter as "authentic"...
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Duh... MegaCorp is always right. Move along citizen.
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Re:Actually no... (Score:5, Interesting)
To be more precise, when people go searching for things, they want to make sure they're getting unbiased results.
People don't care about "unbiased". They care about "useful". Getting results of all DRM movies would be very un-useful to some. The "pirated" copies work on phones, PCs, consoles, and just about everything. The DRM versions are more restricted. The utility of the result is more important than "bias".
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Results:
1. _It didn't really happen..._
2. _Join our anglo pride group_
Sorry, it may be in bad taste, and the Disneys aren't really in control anymore, but it had to be done.
Yeah baby! (Score:5, Funny)
It will be bigger than Bing! At last a search engine that can take on Google.
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and law like that likely will voile the 1st amendment.
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Since when do they care about the 1st amendment, or any part of the constitution?
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Vote this AC up because this is EXACTLY the kind of crap Disney has pulled in the past.
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I cannot think of anyone who would be interested in hidden phallic symbols.
So all we need now is a diff (Score:2)
Between the normal search results and this, and whatever the difference is, is the interesting sites.
Thanks, Disney!
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It took me less than ten seconds to think this, but you are clearly faster than I!
Why is this a patent ? Also : useless. (Score:4, Informative)
2) how do they suppose this should work if other search engine do not use that filtering.
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Search engines that do not filter will be ruled drm circumvention devices. Just like when Windows and Apple finally get DRM nailed down and Linux doesn't implement it. Circumvention devices.
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You're going to hurt your neck with that much tinfoil, man.
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Also, why would Disney want to limit who got to use their algorithm? Sorry, I would prevent people from finding pirated movies, but there's a patent on that...
So they patented this because....? (Score:5, Insightful)
... they *don't* want other search engines to use this?
Or are they planning to somehow force search engines to license the process?
Re:So they patented this because....? (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably the latter.
I'm guessing the next step in their evil plan is to convince congress to pass some law making such mechanisms mandatory in the U.S. - at which point they will license the tech and profit.
Face it, Disney loves to lobby congress, they have done so successfully for many decades.
Re:So they patented this because....? (Score:5, Insightful)
I just love how bribery is called "lobbying" in the US.
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I just love how bribery is called "lobbying" in the US.
As an American, I don't. Like it that is.
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It isn't. Lobbying is talking. Bribing is paying or giving stuff. Lobbyists that are caught paying or giving stuff go to jail for... bribery. Which means the same thing here as other places.
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It isn't. Lobbying is talking. Bribing is paying or giving stuff. Lobbyists that are caught paying or giving stuff go to jail for... bribery. Which means the same thing here as other places.
That's just adorable! Do you believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy too?
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Speculation and hand-waving.
I have great politicians in my State, you're just voting for the wrong people.
Go give Senator Wyden a big campaign donation, and see if his policies change. Hint: they don't, and he votes the way he says he will.
Choosing sucky politicians who vote for whatever the rich people want is just poor electoral practice, it isn't bribery. Yes, most pols support the rich going in, that is what they promise to do: be "business friendly." And then they support policies that are "business fr
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Re:So they patented this because....? (Score:5, Funny)
That was my thought as well. This is the perfect excuse for Google to shrug and say, "Welp, we can't do that ourselves now and we don't want to pay the license. Sorry fellas, ThePirateBay hits the #1 spot for 'disney movie' searches."
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My guess was they accuse Google of promoting piracy by not downranking pirated content and get them to agree to license the patent as a payoff, not caring if they actually implement it.
There's always the backdoor idea that if Google someow did tweak pagerank to downrank pirated content they accuse Google of patent violation..
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No, they patented it so that when some other search engine has to go to court to get it tossed, they'll get 7 or 8 figures of free PR, telling the whole world they're the company fighting the evil baddy-bads.
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But the important thing is.... (Score:2)
The search engines people actually want to use will still be free, right?
Authenticity? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure this "invention" will correctly attribute Snow White to Brothers Grimm and not Disney. Right?
dead on arrival (Score:2)
Can't imagine this ever taking off.
boosting the profile of copyright and trademark holders' websites.
Which means reviews, fan pages and everything else that's actually interesting about something will be pushed down in favor of the 200 landing pages the copyright owner scattered all over the 'net.
Of course, it also means the new Disney movie, successor to Cars! and Planes! will be smash hit and absolutely everyone in the world has heard about it. I'm talking about Cats!, of course.
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I'm talking about Cats!, of course.
And I forgot to mention that three weeks later, half the world will stop using the Internet because they can't find the cat videos they're here for anymore.
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The knowledge of a low UID... clearly you have wisdom and insights on how the internet actually works that transcends any RFC. *I bow to your wisdom*
Contradiction? (Score:2)
...Disney believes that current search engines are using the wrong approach as they rely on a website's "popularity."...
... but what the typical user will want to see is a more authentic page...
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OR I dunno, they could work on being MORE POPULAR with people looking for their product, instead of trying to force/control their customers?
nah, that'd never work. not that we'll ever try it.
Aw, bless (Score:2)
The point of a search engine, to the user, is to give them what they were looking for.
Anything that detracts from this ideal, makes it a 'bad search engine'
If they'd got their head screwed on, in addition to hiding copyright infringing material, they'd have also extended the patent to remove anything that was sold by a Disney competitor (surely users contributing to the coffers of a rival, is much wors
good (Score:2)
Good thing they patented it. Now nobody else will try to implement it.
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Good thing they patented it. Now nobody else will try to implement it.
Google's PageRank already implements some version of this, at the request of the **AA.
Basically, when Google receives a DMCA takedown for a site in its index (which it honors, even though it doesn't have to because it isn't hosting the content), that site gets down-ranked for at least some searches.
So, Disney—a member of the MPAA—now has a patent that gives Google a reason to stop doing what the MPAA asked it to do.
Disney Approved Sites! (Score:2)
How did they manage that? (Score:4, Interesting)
In the arms race between search engines and SEO abhumans, naive popularity became obsolete almost immediately, and made assorted additional weights, filters, and heuristics both necessary and obvious(at a general level, specific ones or specific implementations of one may well be nontrivial or even brilliant; but the fact that naive popularity is now the road to linkfarm hell is news to no one.)
Weighting for copy-cop-correctness is somewhat novel, since the customer demand isn't obvious; but I'm still not seeing how you can scrape an entire patent out of that(especially when the guys in the Patent and Trademark office have probably heard of the "Let's have a big list of registered trademarks for the sake of authenticity in commerce" concept once or twice before...)
Does it matter? (Score:3)
Yahoo has a search engine, and so does Bing and some others.
People use Google.
Re:Does it matter? (Score:5, Interesting)
People use Google.
Some of us use DuckDuckGo.
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DuckDuckGo
Let me Google that.
In Russia, Yandex uses YOU (Score:2)
Some of us use DuckDuckGo.
If you use DuckDuckGo, you're sending your queries to a Russian company.
--
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden, for courageously doing what was right!
Oh wait, I get it: you actually like Russia.
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Yahoo has a search engine
Powered by Bing.
People use Google.
My dislike of Google is starting to cause me to rethink that. I'm in the process of switching to duckduckgo myself.
It certainly hasn't hit critical mass yet... but google is getting steadily more obnoxious and heavy.
A product with no market (Score:2)
Useful as a plugin? (Score:2, Insightful)
Use this as a plugin to a real search engine to identify and strip out the sites that they are promoting as "legit" :-)
Good news is... (Score:2)
It should be pretty easy for the search engines people actually use to prove they're not infringing on Disney's patent.
McDonalds Search Engine (TM) (Score:2)
Will the sheeple comply, I kind of wonder. We let them BF us with NSA, FBI, SAPO, InterPol etc...on the basis of a "safer world", safer from WHO? Us? The users?
shot in own foot (Score:5, Informative)
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astalavista.box.sk might be interested in that algorithm.
Ah, memories. The AstaLaVista search engine was such an important tool back in the day.
Hard to believe it was created 20 years ago.
I feel old.
Wow, that's funny! (Score:4, Insightful)
They design a search engine that implements their wet dream for them and then because they are what they are, they make sure nobody will use it by slapping a patent on it! They are their own worst enemy!
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Shooting themselves in the foot (Score:4, Interesting)
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I wondered the same thing. If anybody else tries to prioritize by "authenticity" they could be violating another's IP, so they can claim that one of the content owners was basically forcing them to rank pirated content or pay them royalties for not ranking it. The law usually does not look favorably on such squeeze plays.
They Filed on Sep 9 2010 (Score:5, Informative)
They filed over 4 years ago. If they haven't got a working search engine by now based on this, they never will. 4 years is forever in internet time.
Never mind that any search engine using this is very unlikely to make a dent in google.
I think their strategy is to "shame" google et al into doing more -- "look, see we got a patent on a means of eliminating piracy, proving that it *IS* possible, therefore you have to do more to prevent piracy."
Ignoring the fact that the existence of a patent proves nothing about whether the invention actually *works*. (I say this as someone who holds a number of patents -- all of mine work -- I filed them after I had them coded and working. But it would have been just as easy to make all of it up and code nothing.)
Tricky Problem (Score:3)
If they haven't got a working search engine by now based on this, they never will. 4 years is forever in internet time.
They got it working in the first 6 months. It took the remaining 3.5 years to figure out how to stop the sites for Pirates of the Caribbean, Peter Pan, Treasure Island etc. getting banned by all the piracy filters.
Disney patents a customer free search engine. (Score:3)
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You would do a search for a Disney product, film or character and it would come back with maybe 15 results grand total.
Because they wouldn't show YouTube results or fan pages because those could be copyright violations.
Most megacorps --- if they had their way --- would actually destroy their own product and attack their own consumers and fans.
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And yes, the big media companies thought they were on to something when they bought out all the newspapers, radio stations, and television networks
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Good patent (Score:2)
Could potentially be useful (Score:2)
Sadly they're doing it wrong. I really don't want to find the official web page for the show. That contains no useful information. I want to know what people think.
Hail Disney (Score:2)
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Thank you, Disney (Score:2)
Thank you for squashing innovation in the field of search engines censored by copyright!
paywalls (Score:3)
So basically, it's a search engine for searching paywalls.
This makes it easy to filter out paywalls from your search results.
1. run search on google
2. run search on disney
3. subtract results from (1) by (2)
4. profit
It's almost like.... (Score:2)
It's almost like the system was BUILT TO BE GAMED.
What kind of effort do you think it will take to get Disney to certify my content as authentic?
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I am now dumber for having read that comment. Please get help.
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Stop feeding the trolls.
Copyright Infringers of the Caribbean (Score:2)
In Disney's Degenerate World, Nazi is OK, Pirate is devilish.
Then explain the success of the Pirates of the Caribbean films.
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50 % of the population has below average intelligence.
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Heh.