Online Privacy Worth Less Than Marshmallow Fluff Six Pack 223
nonprofiteer writes "With a program called Screenwise, Google is offering a total of $25 in Amazon gift cards to anyone willing to install a Chrome browser extension that will let the search giant track every website the user visits and what they do there over a year-long period. Google says it will study this in order to improve its products and services. Forbes points out that $25 in Amazon credits isn't quite enough to buy a six pack of Marshmallow Fluff ($26.75)." The money isn't much as a pure trade for privacy, but I suspect that many people would like to have their preferences be among those that shape how Google — and other companies, too — actually organize their interfaces. (Note that the tracking can be selectively turned off by the user.)
Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
This is one of those statements we need to hear from time to time to shock is into realizing that the vast majority of people out there do not value online privacy to the degree that the Slashdot crowd generally does.
The vast majority of people out there probably rank "letting a company mine my browsing history" somewhere around "filling out a survey".
Re:Yes (Score:2)
The vast majority of people are too stupid to see the difference. That doesn't mean there's not an important difference. If the vast majority of people jumped off a cliff, would you too?
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
I don’t equate it to stupidity. It’s not that people don’t understand the implications of this. It’s made fairly clear.. “every site you visit will be known to us”. It comes down to having different priorities.
The Slashdot crowd is privacy sensitive. It’s important to us. The fact that it’s not important to others is something we have to learn to accept. We can’t always write it off as “well, they are just stupid.. if only we could explain it to them in the right way..” because they have a valid opinion. They’ve chosen to live a certain way, and privacy is not a priority to them.
Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
âoewell, they are just stupid.. if only we could explain it to them in the right way..â because they have a valid opinion. Theyâ(TM)ve chosen to live a certain way, and privacy is not a priority to them.
We can tell this is not the case, because when people get bitten by the obvious consequences of surrendering their privacy, they complain. If they knew and expected those consequences, they wouldn't be bothered when it happens. And yet we still hear stupid people complain about how facebook shared their data in a way they don't approve of. Tough shit, that's what you signed up for.
Re:Yes (Score:3)
And yet we still hear stupid people complain about how facebook shared their data in a way they don't approve of.
I actually don't see this happening. Not saying it hasn't, I've just never really seen it. Occasionally I'll hear one of my non-geek friends state "ya know, facebook owns everything you put there" .. but it's stated in more of an "interesting trivia" manner than a outraged "stop using facebook" manner (for the record, I'm the stubourn friend without the facebook/twitter/etc in my social circles).
The only people I hear complaining about facebooks no-privacy privacy policy are like minded geeks who know better and as you said, if they sign up anyway, they have no right to complain.
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Of course, you're never going to hear about people who didn't get a job because of what HR found on Facebook. And if I hacked your credit card account with your mothers maiden name that I got off of your facebook page, how would you know? But you do, or at least I do, hear complaints about Facebook being used in divorce settlements. Or even just posting your vacation plans on Facebook can lead to your house getting burlarized [nj.com].
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Life has risks. Given the large number of facebook users and the small number of cases where people are hurt in this manner, I'd equate this style of thinking to saying that people shouldn't drive cars because you hear about people dying in accidents all the time (for that matter, you car is also a pretty damn good indicator of whether you are home.. wouldn't take a criminal mastermind too much effort to figure out that my house is empty Monday to Friday for about 9 hours a day).
Again, this is coming down to priorities. I suspect that even being fully aware of the risks, most people enjoy the whole social networking thing to a degree where they would do so anyway. I see no problem with this. It's a calculated risk decision.
(That's not to say there arn't some exceptionally dumb people out there using facebook and such in a way that's blatantly self destructive and clearly no thought given to the implications of sharing their info).
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Re:Yes (Score:2)
They *do* know those consequences, they just expect them not to happen
Like I said, stupidity.
Re:Yes (Score:2)
And, as a practical matter, the point of taking part in a survey or study is to give up that privacy so that they can make products that better reflect how you use them. Without that data it is harder, if not impossible, to actually make better products. Google developers are not typical examples of how people use the internet.
We have this issue with games too. Trying to figure out who is a valid testing set is really hard. If I hand my game off to some 40 year old women I'll get different testing results than 20 year old men. Sometimes that just gives better testing results to have that diversity, sometimes you bias your game to feedback you like or feedback you don't.
With automated tools, and we have them in games, especially in the MMO business, you track everywhere people die, how often, if you can why, how much dps/healing/dmg whatever they do, package it all up and try and figure out what is causing people problems. The idea that you can map the data back ot a particular user isn't ideal, and I'm sure lots of users aren't all that fond of it (maybe less so in a game where the people who have the data are the ones making the game), but if you want to make a web browser you need to know how actual people use the web browser. The only way to do that is to have people voluntarily opt in, or to secretly track them. Secret tracking is bad (albeit better at producing honest data probably, no selection biases, no people trying to watch nature shows to game the nielsen ratings, sort of thing), so you're left with voluntary tracking. If they purely asked for volunteers then it would be saying 'your privacy is worth nothing' when compared to a 25 dollar amazon gift card. But I don't think that's fair. Google is saying 'thank you' for giving up this info so they can make a better browser. No amount of money is ever going to make everyone happy, and no matter how much money you have you can't just give it all away for nothing. If they paid 20k you'd have everyone under the sun signing up because that's a lot of money, and privacy is only worth so much compared to 20k, and people trying to game the system to get 20k multiple ways etc. This way, if 10% of users collect 10 amazon cards you're not out much overall, you don't need enforcement and you still get mostly decent data. Which is about all you can do.
Re:Yes (Score:3)
Of course, it wouldn't be my actual desktop it would be installed on. It would either be one of the junker laptops I rarely use, or a virtual machine that is carefully monitored. Either way, it would see a totally boring, and possibly scripted, tour of common news and corporate websites as if it were done by a paranoid person who know they're being tracked.
If this throws off their data, I would feel happy that I got paid enough to take my daughter out to lunch just by demonstrating their flaws.
Re:Yes (Score:3)
Itâ(TM)s not that people donâ(TM)t understand the implications of this. Itâ(TM)s made fairly clear.. âoeevery site you visit will be known to usâ.
Well, I was surprised by this story, because I've always just assumed that Chrome sends a log of what I do back to the Mother Ship at Google. I don't have the source code, so that's what I'd suspect. And even with this story out, I still suspect that it's reporting my surfing to someone I don't know of. It'd be easy enough for them to hide this among all the auto-refresh traffic, and so on.
I don't use Chrome for online banking, mostly for this reason. There are several open-source browsers available that are much more trustworthy (though they're worth keeping an eye on ;-).
So why would any sensible person think that their browser isn't sending their surfing history out to someone back home?
I don't use Chrome for online banking for this reason.
Re:Yes (Score:5, Interesting)
The vast majority of people might just do less weirdo shit on their computer than you? What exactly is wrong with Google having access to my entire search history with my consent? Microsoft Windows has a similar feature where you can turn on performance counters in the OS and aggregated data is then used to make features shaped more like the user wants them.
It's not like they're saying "We'll read your entire search history, tough shit", they're offering people to willingly give them that information, and for the bother, they are compensated with a minor bonus.
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Which, they're probably doing anyway.
Even if they don't admit it, I'm pretty sure Google already has this if you're searching while logged in.
Their latest changes to their privacy policy really only amounts to "we can (and do) already do this, we're just making it clear to you".
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Even if they don't admit it, I'm pretty sure Google already has this if you're searching while logged in.
Uh, of course they do, and they do admit it; it's very clearly listed on their Privacy FAQ [google.com].
What they're asking here is the list of all the websites you visit, coming from their search engines or not. That's why they need a browser extension.
Re:Yes (Score:2)
No, but that doesn't mean that I could stop them from jumping off a cliff with a well reasoned argument about why it's a stupid thing to do.
That 'vast majority' simply aren't going to listen to you. They're simply not interested.
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Re:Yes (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Yes (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Yes (Score:3)
Re:Yes (Score:2)
How about "letting a company mine my browsing history for a browser that I don't use."
Sounds like $25 for installing something and letting it sit on my HD while I continue to use Firefox.
Re:Yes (Score:2)
The vast majority of people out there probably rank "letting a company mine my browsing history" somewhere around "filling out a survey".
I've actually stated the bit about the survey elsewhere in the thread. Okay, I'm part of the vast majority who doesn't value privacy the way Slashdotters typically do.
So please educate me, I want to know: They're being up-front about what they want to do with it and they're compensating the volunteers for it. They can use another browser if they don't want Google to see something. So why is this worse than filling out a survey?
No, I'm not setting up an argument, no I'm not defending them, I really just don't understand the problem here. If Google had, for example, turned this on by default, or if the tracking method wasn't limited to using the Chrome browser, or if there were details they weren't being up front about, I'd get it. I'm not defensive, just baffled.
Re:Yes (Score:2)
I actually replied to someone else in this thread that I don't think this opinion is wrong or "stupid".
Some (maybe most) people have chosen a lifestyle where privacy is not the big thing to protect at all costs. Stuff like this where as you said they aren't doing anything sneaky... I also have no problem with.
I wasn't trying to imply that this was somehow worse than filling out a survey .. I meant that some view it at the same level of "I'm giving up X to get Y".
Re:Yes (Score:3)
Chrome doesn't send any extra info to Google. Like many other browsers it sends search queries as you type them to use search autocomplete features.
Of course (Score:2)
Re:Of course (Score:3)
Funny thing, though - a lot of people would whip out the shotgun if someone was peeping in their window or reading their private journals.
Re:Of course (Score:2)
Its not like they're saying "We're doing this, and you cant stop us!" They're saying "If you're willing, we'll give this in exchange." Weather you find that exchange fair is one thing to debate, but dont try to drive the discussion to "spying" when they asked first, and give you something in return for the information.
Maybe Google can get my age and gender right (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Maybe Google can get my age and gender right (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry, I trust google more than some random person on the web. How do you know you're not wrong about your age and gender?
I think you should accept the fact that you're not what you think you are.
Re:Maybe Google can get my age and gender right (Score:2, Funny)
No, there are not.
If they tracked me via Chrome... (Score:3)
Yeah, thats all I use Chrome for.
Free $25? Sure. (Score:2)
What if I don't surf with Chrome? (Score:2)
Would I still get the $25 if I installed it and then did the majority of my surfing with IE/FF and occasionally surfed with Chrome, as there's probably some Terms of Service that requires a minimal amount of usage.
I wonder how much money I could make if I created hundreds of VMs and installed the plugin in those...
Re:What if I don't surf with Chrome? (Score:2)
Re:What if I don't surf with Chrome? (Score:3)
Already way ahead of your.
I've got a pool contractor who will take credit at Amazon, and I'm buying enough Marshmallow Fluff to fill my new pool and go swimming in it.
It's not just the Amazon Gift Cards... (Score:2)
Really? (Score:2)
Where did you get that information? I don't see any reference to payments other than the aforementioned up to $25 in Amazon.com gift cards anywhere.
You're looking at this wrong (Score:2)
You're looking at this wrong; it's not that privacy is valued too cheaply- it's that Marshmallow fluff 6-packs are valued too highly.
Re:You're looking at this wrong (Score:3)
Sadly, though, the $25 is not enought to buy even a gallon of the rich, creamy, life giving ambrosia known as Tuscan Whole Milk, 1 Gallon, 128 fl oz [amazon.com].
That would be a different story altogether.
Alternate headline (Score:3)
"Online Privacy Worth More Than Marshmallow Fluff Five Pack"
See? It's a glass half full/half-empty kinda thing.
Great idea (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Great idea (Score:5, Funny)
Install it on the library computer.
Re:Great idea (Score:2, Funny)
I've already been tracking your wife's computer usage, screenshots, webcam, etc - for years.
And she seems to enjoy watching midgets shit on old people.
Re:Great idea (Score:2)
I've already been tracking your wife's computer usage, screenshots, webcam, etc - for years.
And she seems to enjoy watching midgets shit on old people.
Almost as much as we've enjoyed watching her watch them.
Bullshit (Score:3)
"The money isn't much as a pure trade for privacy, but I suspect that many people would like to have their preferences be among those that shape how Google — and other companies, too — actually organize their interfaces."
Here's my proposed experiment. Make 2 offers:
(A) We track what you watch for a year, we will NOT use it to shape any interfaces, you get $25.
(B) We track what you watch for a year, we WILL use it to shape any interfaces, you get $0.
My bet would be that the ratio of acceptances would be at least 10:1 in favor of (A).
I only see "being tracked is great as long as I get more targeted advertising" as a claim from Slashdotters.
Quoting the submission: (Score:2)
Note that the tracking can be selectively turned off by the user.
Prove it.
Re:Quoting the submission: (Score:2)
Yeah... and google will know what you're doing during the time the tracking is turned off too! We all will.
Re:Quoting the submission: (Score:2)
How do you know this isn't beta testing for a new Chrome feature? ;)
Marshmallow Fluff? (Score:2)
I wasn't really sure what this stuff was so had to look it up.
Apparently one jar of the stuff is a lifetime's supply. So having your privacy being worth 5 whole lifetimes is a pretty good valuation.
Re:Marshmallow Fluff? (Score:2)
http://www.amazon.com/Fluff-Marshmallow-Unit-Pack/dp/B001686590/ref=sr_1_1?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1328792229&sr=1-1 [amazon.com]
I'd hardly call that a lifetime supply.
Re:Marshmallow Fluff? (Score:2)
I'm not so sure. I can stand one teaspoon a year. How many years is that worth?
I hate this trend! (Score:5, Interesting)
Dear Google,
I am not the average user. I am a technical user that is intelligent and values privacy. Please make me a google that gives relevant technical results for my queries instead of the hodge-podge that the average illiterate user can understand and click-through. xxx-answer or some similar should never be a result.
The results from the 25$ incentive will most likely be skewed in an unfavourable direction when compared to the search results I am looking for - due to the demographic (which I foresee) partaking in this research experiment. Please reconsider.
Signed: The guy that is always finding google harder and harder to use.
PS - Give me the option to search using an older algorithm.
Wrong angle... (Score:2)
That will a fetch handle of rum or a 1.5 liter of vodka.
Most people will happily surrender tons of personal, and incriminating, information about themselves when offered or plied with aforementioned liquid.
So it's same old same old, just now with no hangover!
Steven Colbert said it best with 'Public-see' (Score:2)
People are willing to give up their privacy if it saves them 10% at Petco.
What's to stop you from taking their money and only using Chrome to visit a few websites?
This is Great! (Score:2)
I would never do it, but at least it starts to give people an idea of how much google values their privacy and they can then ask themselves if their privacy is really more valuable than what google is able to get out of it.
I would like to propose the reverse program - I pay google $5 month in return for never, ever being tracked at all no matter how many of their services I use. Not the typical BS of still tracking but not actually "using" the collected info, I mean the people who pay get their info logged to /dev/null instead of google's permanent databases.
5 bucks up front for no privacy? Get real. (Score:2)
Where's the drama? (Score:2)
The money isn't much as a pure trade for privacy, but I suspect that many people would like to have their preferences be among those that shape how Google â" and other companies, too â" actually organize their interfaces. (Note that the tracking can be selectively turned off by the user.)
They're being told up front what is being offered in exchange for what. It's a browser extension so they could just flip to Opera or FireFox if they don't want Google to see. Some people might be enticed by Google improving their products with that information, and they get paid for it.
What's the drama? What does this even have to do with privacy? Are we going to complain about being paid to take a survey, too?
Re:Where's the drama? (Score:2)
Re:Where's the drama? (Score:2)
I choose not to and.. .ack... ack... I'm being forced to do it against my will! Quick! Hit the moderate button!!
Re:Where's the drama? (Score:2)
I'm thinking that the primary source of the outrage is the fact that now there's been a dollar value assigned to your privacy, and that value is $25.00 at Amazon (which probably costs Google $20, because Amazon makes money off of shipping and such...)
I'm sure there's other reasons that are a bit more meta when it comes to privacy and how it's treated as well.
Eww (Score:2)
Frankly I'm a bit more shocked at how much marshmallow fluff costs. Whatever the hell marshmallow fluff is...
As long as they accept others value their privacy (Score:2)
I'll readily accept that some people really genuinely don't care at all about being spied on, and as long as they accept that I do, I have no quarrel with these people. I also understand that some people object vigorously to what I might consider some fairly minor infringements. I respect that as well, and feel that there should be no collection of personal information without a very compelling reason.
However, if people willingly give it away, and the deal can be clearly considered an honest and open agreement then who are we to tell them they shouldn't.
Marshmallow Fluff? All it takes is chocolate (Score:3)
Am I the only one who remembers the study that found people would give up their passwords for a chocolate bar?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3639679.stm [bbc.co.uk]
(and that a good percentage didn't even need the chocolate)
I'd pay that yearly for Google to guarantee... (Score:2)
I'd pay that cost yearly for Google to guarantee to not track my registered identities (work, personal). If that's the price they put on it, sure!
So our privacy is worth 2 cents a day? (Score:2)
New nomenclature (Score:4, Interesting)
Since the big corporations have, wrongly, labeled copyright infringement with "piracy", perhaps we should consider to label corporate privacy intrusion with the term "voyeurism" or something similar.
Wrong headline (Score:2)
So? (Score:2)
Better Source Article (Score:2)
Think bigger (Score:3)
And better yet, those (24x36) The Godfather Movie (Dollar Bill) Poster Prints look sort of like real money, so maybe Amazon will accept them as legal tender, and you can exchange your $2500 for 250000 (24x36) The Godfather Movie (Dollar Bill) Poster Prints, then exchange those for 25000000 (24x36) The Godfather Movie (Dollar Bill) Poster Prints, exchange those for 2500000000 (24x36) The Godfather Movie (Dollar Bill) Poster Prints, exchange those for 250000000000 (24x36) The Godfather Movie (Dollar Bill) Poster Prints, exchange those for 25000000000000 (24x36) The Godfather Movie (Dollar Bill) Poster Prints, and suddenly you've got enough (24x36) The Godfather Movie (Dollar Bill) Poster Prints to cover the Earth with a layer of (24x36) The Godfather Movie (Dollar Bill) Poster Prints almost four (24x36) The Godfather Movie (Dollar Bill) Poster Prints deep. Thanks to Google and Amazon/Poster Revolution, all of your mad genius-destroy-the-Earth desires can be realized!
Solution (Score:4, Interesting)
2. Create the following AppleScript and use a cron job to run it once a month or so:
tell application "Google Chrome"
set URL of active tab of window 1 to "http://www.google.com"
activate
quit
end tell
3. Make Firefox your default browser
4. Profit!
5. Repeat steps one through four on another computer
Why does this seem oddly like mining bitcoins...
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:3)
It comes in a six pack...doesn't seem to be any type of beer I've heard of....
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
it's a marshmallow-like paste, wet marshmallows I suppose. Sugar and egg, pretty much. You can put it on ice cream, deserts, etc. Weirdos put it on peanut butter sandwiches. ("fluffernutter").
I've never seen a 6-pack though. only in America, I guess. :-p
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
That sounds more pc to me.
By "pc" I mean "Linguistically Obfuscated" as opposed to "Personal Computer".
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:3)
Are you referring to necrohippoflagilism?
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:3)
The real question is ... What the hell is "marshmallow fluff"?
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:4, Funny)
Google would show good humour if "marshmallow fluff" were the name of the next Android OS release.
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:3)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshmallow_creme [wikipedia.org]
And one of the reasons it's popular:
http://www.marshmallowfluff.com/pages/fluffernutter.html [marshmallowfluff.com]
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
I'll stick with Marmite+Peanut butter, thanks...
Begs the question though, isn't there anything on Amazon that costs $26 and that people have heard of it?
(Cue the "begging the question" Nazis...)
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
It's an edible product that appears to be terribly overpriced.
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:3)
Since we're on the subject, do you have a young child? I do. At least she hasn't put a grilled cheese in the vcr, but she did contemplate putting a pancake in the dvd.
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:3)
...and is there a porn site that uses it?
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2, Interesting)
Hope you guys like watching a lot of midgets shitting on grannies. And I mean a *LOT* of midgets shitting on grannies.
It's people like you that will completely skew the results and ruin the Internet.
When I search for Mickey Mouse I don't want to come up with Debbie Does Disney, I want some family-friendly, pre-censored search results. And I don't want any Catholic priests or evangelical preachers signing up just for the 25 dollar giveaway. There is enough perversion on the Internet without search results being based on the sexual fantasies of religious leaders.
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
It would be CSPAN, but with less politicians.
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
That is why we have www.tallseniorsshittingonmidgets.com
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:2)
It sounds like a cheap way to build a database of popular porn sites.
Re:Surf's not up (Score:3)
Your Wolf Pack doesn't scare me, bra. I'm as good as ANY of you!
Re:Surf's not up (Score:2)
(If you don't know the reference, look up "Gabriel Iglesias Fluffy".)
Re:If any google employee can stomach what I surf (Score:3)
Lots of fiber.
Re:Who buys marshmallow fluff? (Score:3)
That's less than one beer every 15 days for having google spy on you.
Re:Free Money? (Score:2)
Even better, run it in a virtual machine.
Re:Sounds like a research project... (Score:2)
Is this any different than offering undergrads $20 to participate in a psychology experiment?
Venkman's lousy 5 bucks isn't cutting it any more then?