Iran Set To Block Access To Google 279
legolas writes "The official state online censorship body in Iran has reported that Google and Gmail are going to be blocked effective immediately, ostensibly in response to the contentious videos that YouTube is hosting. This comes as Iran is preparing the launch of their 'Halal' intranet to replace the current direct (albeit highly censored) access to the global Internet. While there have been several state-organized protests for the film 'Innocence Of Muslims' in Iran, the public in general doesn't seem bothered by it."
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:5, Insightful)
Trying to save this from a First Post Godwin,
Mr. H. is passe. That's not precisely how the next threat will manifest. The world is too networked for that. I don't have time to read my 1,000 pages for Citations Needed, but basically Mr. H. got as far as he did because of the specific places he was in geography-time.
Now, we might see another Charismatic Dangerous Leader, yes. But you can't go just marching along, not today. So the next Bad Guy will be more of a Loose Cannon that needs to be talked down Game Theory style, with VERY clever diplomacy.
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Mr. H. is passe. That's not precisely how the next threat will manifest. The world is too networked for that. I don't have time to read my 1,000 pages for Citations Needed, but basically Mr. H. got as far as he did because of the specific places he was in geography-time.
And that's how you can fail to degodwinize a thread. Hilter was lucky to get where he did, but it wasn't so much a matter of luck that a Hitler rose to power. For example, the German military, almost immediately started violating the terms of the Treaty of Versailles to the point where they apparently were killing people who knew too much of the Treaty violations in the 1920s. As it turned out, one of the leaders who supervised the German military's black ops stuff, a General Kurt von Schleicher, later beca
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Not sure we're talking on the same plane.
I meant that Today's Scary Leader is/will soon be sitting on a button that could blow up the world. It's not about marching troops per se anymore, it's all down to convincing that guy not to push the button.
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Now, we might see another Charismatic Dangerous Leader, yes.
The desired habits are being installed even now [investors.com].
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So the last war will be the war to end all wars?
You are quite sure it won't be the second last one?
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Mr H. had a similar opinion on evil, which was spelled as either jewry or weakness. Strength can only prevail if it eliminates all kinds of weakness.
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"Mr. H"?! Since when did he earn the right to be referred to in this way?
Since he guest starred on "Happy Days."
I often think it was this, and not Fonzie's "Jumping the Shark" episode, that led to the series' demise.
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Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:5, Informative)
I think the most scary thing from the poll you linked is that 8% of Muslims did not agree that: Muslims living in the U.S. do not sympathize with the al Qaeda terrorist organization.
This means that 1 in 12 Muslims interviewed could believe that Muslims living in the U.S. sympathize with an organisation who openly hates western society.
Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:4, Informative)
Well, that could have other meanings. It could mean, as you say, that they're admitting something. But it could just as likely mean that there are some Muslims who are cynical about people of their faith. I'm sure we can find a good percentage of self-identified Christians who think they're surrounded by fundamentalists and think there are people among them who sympathize with abortion clinic bombers. Less of them would think so as compared to non-Christians, just like the graph, but I'm sure you could find 8 cynics out of 100.
Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure about those equal chances. People in the West don't fear for their lives when they espouse anti-authoritarian or anti-religion views. This tells me there are more barriers in the West to some imaginary future Hitler. Now, you can say those barriers aren't good enough for you, but the difference is there and the equivalence is false.
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So... does it have nothing to do with culture and religion that most Muslim countries have poor human development levels? That most Muslim countries are sexist (in practice even if they deny it) and homophomic? That a disproportionate number of conflicts involve Muslim countries? Or that most people killed in religiously-motivated riots in the last 50 years have been killed by Muslims (and indeed, have probably been Muslim themselves)?
As another
Islamophobia and hypocrisy (Score:2)
In that journal, you speak of criticism of Islam as "racial hatred". This is absurd; a person who criticizes Islam is no more racist than a person who criticizes communism. A religion (or ideology) is not a race.
And I would love the Left to practice what it preaches;
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...it's a small proportion of Muslims acting in the way rightists here want to depict all Muslims as.
Says Agenda Joe.
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I'd think that anyone that truly didn't have a religion, if I asked them about the subject they'd just say "Oh I dunno... never really thought about it."
Have you ever answered that in a group of believers? They'll talk to you until you tell them you are saved, or start professing your love to the anti-God. Either way, I've found few religious people that allow for people who do not pick a side.
Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:5, Interesting)
Most atheists I know have a dog in every fight. Proclaim "There is no God!" is just as annoying as telling everyone to repent. Your anti-believe in God is just as fervent as any foaming at the mouth preachers belief. I'd think that anyone that truly didn't have a religion, if I asked them about the subject they'd just say "Oh I dunno... never really thought about it." Instead you have your own religion, Atheism, and you believe anyone that doesn't agree with your faith is strange and capable of violence. If only they had the same moral compass as you do... perhaps you should try and convert them? Oh wait...
Sorry, but this is what you want to beleive, not reality.
In simple terms, it's wrong.
It is also clear, you've never actually talked to atheists. It is an utter fabrication you need to tell yourself this in order to compensate for your own self doubt. This is a weakness in your faith, not a aspect of my lack of faith. You seem to be offended when I say, "there is no god" but I'm not offended when you say "there is a god" because I do not fear what you do or do not believe in.
I proclaim, "there is no god", I also proclaim "I dont want you to do anything". What you believe in is your business, I only ask the same courtesy to be returned and for you not to demand I believe in your deity.
Yes, whether or not you believe in god has zero effect on me as I don't believe in god. To use an analogy, your hobby of collecting stamps has not effect on my hobby of not collecting stamps.
The question is, why is your faith so weak that you are so offended that I don't believe in god.
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"Your anti-believe in God is just as fervent as any foaming at the mouth preachers belief."
Sure and not collecting stamps is our hobby.
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Bullshit. If someone wants to convince me that God exists, the onus is on the believer to supply proof.
People who do follow religion are demonstrably capable of believing in supernatural beings without the slightest shred of evidence. That's already a good sign they're not quite rational and the more weak-minded among them are ripe to be recruited by extremists.
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it's a small proportion of Muslims acting in the way rightists here want to depict all Muslims as.
>>Objecting to others stereotyping a group
>>Doing so by stereotyping "rightists"
I see what you did there.
Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, this is clearly a problem of "rightest" depiction of the actions of Islamists.
Bounty on Salman Rushdie increased to $3.3 million - Iran will pursue makers of anti-Islam film: vice-presidenthor [vancouversun.com]
Pakistani minister puts bounty on anti-Islam filmmaker's head [theage.com.au]
Egypt's president elect Mohammed Morsi says he will try to free Blind Sheikh [telegraph.co.uk]
Mohammed Morsi, Egypt's president elect, on Friday appealed for the release of one of Osama bin Laden's closest associates, a call sure to alarm critics worried about the direction he will take the country
Interview with Father Zakaria Botros, 'Radical Islam's Bane' - An interview with the Coptic Orthodox Priest with a 60 million dollar bounty on his head from al Qaeda. [catholic.org]
More: Michael Coren Interviews Father Zakaria Botros 'Radical Islam's Bane' [youtube.com]
Allied Menace [danielpipes.org]
"Here are two brother countries, united like a single fist," said socialist Hugo Chávez during a visit to Tehran last November, celebrating his alliance with Islamist Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Che Guevara's son Camilo, who also visited Tehran last year, declared that his father would have "supported the country in its current struggle against the United States." They followed in the footsteps of Fidel Castro, who in a 2001 visit told his hosts that "Iran and Cuba, in cooperation with each other, can bring America to its knees." For his part, Ilich Ramírez Sánchez ("Carlos the Jackal") wrote in his book L'islam révolutionnaire ("Revolutionary Islam") that "only a coalition of Marxists and Islamists can destroy the United States."
You want to live in a peaceful world, and al-Qaida and assorted Islamists want you to live in a Muslim world [spiegel.de]. I expect that neither of you will get your wish unless enough people prefer any peace, even the peace of the graveyard, or the "peace" of slavery, to the long term struggle to defense genuine peace a freedom.
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defend genuine peace and freedom.
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Comfort breeds a lot of things, namely political apathy and corruption, but it doesn't bring the kind of social unrest necessary to create a new Hitler. You need an unstable area combined with an extremely charismatic leader to succeed there.
A politician in the US or in Europe who wanted to go power-crazy would be stopped by inertia: the population doesn't give a flying shit about what he wants to do, since they're still comfortable as they are and see no reason to change that.
Now, if the US or EU collapse
Re:Complete and utter pandering BULLSHIT (Score:5, Interesting)
Have you been to Iran? I was just there two months ago. The majority of the population hates their government, but they are too scared to do anything about it.
Re:Complete and utter pandering BULLSHIT (Score:5, Interesting)
Every Iranian I've ever met has been erudite, intelligent, moderate and truly delightful. The Iranian people are oppressed by Islamists who justify their power by appealing to Islam. As long as Islam holds sway over a billion+ people, injustices like the Iranian theocracy will perpetuate.
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The Iranian people are oppressed by Islamists who justify their power by appealing to Islam. As long as Islam holds sway over a billion+ people, injustices like the Iranian theocracy will perpetuate.
There's an old saying that the amount of shit you are willing to put up with is approximately the amount of shit you'll be given.
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Re:Complete and utter pandering BULLSHIT (Score:5, Interesting)
Every Iranian I've ever met has been erudite, intelligent, moderate and truly delightful.
This is consistent with my experience. I have the utmost respect for every Iranian I have personally gotten to know.
Then again, every Iranian I've ever met (a few dozen) took huge risks to escape the regime in Iran and request asylum in the U.S. Unless you have wide experience in Iranian cities and rural areas, the people we have met are more extreme than the general population, in much the same way that the steam that rises from a boiling pot is hotter than the water in the pot. I absolutely believe that in Iran, as in Russia, the masses do not believe the state propaganda being produced to keep a paranoid minority in power, but it would be a mistake to assume that the majority of people in Iran are like the ones who escaped. By definition, they're different because they didn't escape (for whatever reason).
It's also important to remember that being erudite, intelligent and moderate doesn't preclude one from being complicit with more radical ideas. About 15 years ago a relative in New York doing business with a factory in Pakistan asked me work with a technically-proficient relative of the owner of the factory to set up a modern communications channel to replace the expensive fax and telex method they'd been using for years. I was expecting difficulty in communicating concepts and file formats because I had no idea what kind of equipment they were using. As I talked with my counterpart in Pakistan, who happened to be a military officer, I was struck by how erudite, intelligent, moderate and practical he was. I liked the guy. We very quickly figured things out and saved both sides a lot of time and money. A year later, when Pakistan tested its first nuclear weapon [wikipedia.org], he was the military spokesperson quoted in all the English-language newspapers announcing the test. I am sure he was opposed to the test and the increased tensions with India that would result, but that didn't stop him from being used as the mouthpiece that spread fear around the world in the spring of 1998.
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in much the same way that the steam that rises from a boiling pot is hotter than the water in the pot.
While I agree with the content of your post, I must point out that the temperatures of the water vapor is exactly the same of the boiling water.
Re:Complete and utter pandering BULLSHIT (Score:5, Insightful)
"It's no worse than other religions, look at Christianity."
"But Christians don't get all weird about iconography, no rioting over cartoons."
"Christians get weird about other things, that's just one idiosyncratic example."
Look, the problem isn't with Islam or any other single belief system. Or any other single belief for that matter, this is about people in power maintaining their power by pushing a topic with broad public support. Usually that support comes from ignorance or gullibility. Look at all the things justified "because terrorists" or "child pornography" or "pedophile rapist home invaders, who are lurking around every corner." You don't solve this problem by ranting about Islam, you solve this problem by, somehow, convincing people that they need to be less gullible. This is why you so often hear people talking about education as a long term solution to corruption and other ills, and why dismantling public education is often such a high priority among the corrupt. Iran isn't keeping women out of schools out of misogyny, they're doing it to keep people tractable.
The point is: enough with the Islam/Christian bashing. Or religion in general. It's a red herring, there to distract you from the real problem.
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Right! When authorities stop one group from seeking higher education, they are seeking to gain twofold. They keep some people dumber, and they also make the other groups that can still get that higher education feel like insiders whom they hope will become more prone to reject criticism from the outgroup. The people who are still allowed to seek higher education may also come to fear they too can be cut off from the success it helps produce if they don't go along with the government. If it continues long en
Re:Complete and utter pandering BULLSHIT (Score:5, Interesting)
enough with the Islam/Christian bashing. Or religion in general. It's a red herring, there to distract you from the real problem.
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." -House
I get and fully agree with your point about gullibility being the real issue. However what you're proposing (ignoring the religious part of the matter) sounds a bit like saying that instead of getting treatment for an illness a person should simply switch to a healthier lifestyle and the disease will magically fix itself.
Complicity to auhtority is an integral part of most religions. And I'm not talking just about muslims here. Members of the abrahamic religions usually gorw up in an enviroment where they are told that their view of the world is the correct one and everyone else - no matter what kind of reasoning or evidence they might use - is wrong. Likewise they are most often than not told that questioning anything told to them by their religious leaders is wrong. No adult would swallow all of this without questioning it but the mind of a child is extremely gullible, especially when it comes to information coming from his/her own parents so they come to accept it as the norm.
Don't get me wrong. The problem isn't that these people are stupid. The problem is that they've been told to never question anything that comes from a position of authority, no matter how much they dislike it. Many of the Iranian people probably disagree with the regime but - just like they're afraid to question the existence of God (in public) - they're afraid to question their leaders, no matter how vastly they might outnumber the people in power. Some people see and understand this but they tend to escape from the country instead of risking their lives (and the lives of their families) by trying to speak up because they also know that the majority of their fellow men will - out of fear - be demanding their public execution rather than standing with them.
That is essentially what organized religions are used for by both religious and govermental leaders: as a tool to control people and make them obidient and fearful. So while I agree with you that the true problem is indeed gullibility: I don't agree that religioin is a red herring because as far as I can see the vast majority of these people wouldn't be so gullible if it wasn't for their religion and religious upbringing.
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Actually religion is THE problem. As Richard Dawkins so elegantly has pointed out: Religion is a delusion, but as so many suffer from it, it is not recognized as the mental illness it really is.
The alternatives [wikipedia.org] appear worse [harvard.edu].
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Not to imply that all Iranians are stupid, extremist or terrible, but please keep in mind you're having an extreme sampling bias. Unless you say you went there and spoke with the local population, the Iranians you will have met have managed to leave the country, and that usually requires money or a heap of effort, both of which are heavy factors into whether the person is going to be erudite and intelligent. Moderation then comes from being exposed to many different ideas and perspectives, which is a lot mo
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Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:5, Insightful)
The above jibber-jabber you replied to is siding with Iran even though he didn't say so.
By implying that a new "Hitler" could rise out of the West while all the signs are pointing towards the Middle East and the surrounding area - Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, Libya.
Shutting out Google / YouTube is not the only thing Iran is doing.
Iran is also banning Female Students from taking courses in 77 subjects, including English Literature, Nuclear Science, Sociology, Philosophy
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-22/iranian-women-banned-from-77-university-courses/4275764 [abc.net.au]
It's a totally fucked up world under Islam and more often than not the "new Hitler" will come from a fucked up world, not from places like the West.
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It takes generations to remove hate from a culture, but it only takes a few years to generate it.
Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm no expert on the subject (I know everyone else is), but I seem to remember Hitler arose in a battered, lagging nation, suffering from years of retribution over WWI. And before the inevitable, "oh well our economy kinda stinks", you'll have to work pretty hard to convince me that the state of our nation's psyche is anywhere near postwar Germany.
Meanwhile, Gallup says Obama is in the lead, beating a contender that (all hyperbole aside) does not resemble a maniacal dictator with ambitions of taking over the world and breeding a race of aryans to rule for a thousand years. At worst he's an insensitive 2000's-era business mogul looking to enrich his somewhat-similar buddies. At best, he's a political panderer with the ideological spine of a wet noodle and little real prowess to back it up, just doing what looked like the next stop on his career path.
If you want to find a Hitler, I think you'd have to look somewhere pretty poor (not: I can't have the new iphone 5 for another 6 months), where once there was wealth, with a raging hard-on for the outside world. Then find the intelligent, convincing, hard core political leader that presents himself as a "true believer" fighting for his people.
I know we hear some pretty nasty stuff on TV sometimes, but the idea that we're nearing anything close to building a Fourth Reich in earnest seems really silly. Our hot-button issues sound like, "shouldn't gays have all the same marriage priviledges as straights?!" and "is capital gains tax too low?!" or "I think marijuana should be legal!" It all sounds like a far cry from, "are muslims really human beings, or sub-human creatures we should blame for 8% unemployment?"
I dunno... like I said, I'm no expert in geopolitics. That's just how it all looks to me.
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Obama is Hitler (Score:3, Insightful)
Obama is Hitler and no not because of Health Care and all the sillyness the right claims. People voted for Obama mostly because he was not the other guy. Anything but Bush. "Democracy" is at its most dangerous NOT when an obviously dangerous madman runs for power but when the voting public is willing to accept ANYONE but the regular guys.
In France, Hollande has been in power for 4 months and people are already dissatisfied because he hasn't turned the economy around. And the reason he was elected? Because h
Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:4, Interesting)
You don't find it alarming that Obama has a kill list, can kill people anywhere (even US citizens) without any trial or even any evidence of wrongdoing. Runs a prison where people are jailed indefinitely without any trial or jury. It all starts the same way, slowly and slowly your rights are taken away.
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There is only one race. The Human Race.
Might I suggest a new term: cultural genocide.
I've cleared court rooms with that one.
Hyperbole (Score:5, Interesting)
The current "hate" is of the sort "I don't want a ground zero Mosque just like a Japanese wouldn't want Disneyland Hiroshima"
The Nazi kind of "hate" is of the sort "Retards and cripples must die, because they are inferior. Jews must all die, because they are monsters"
If you think that these two attitudes are remotely similar, then you are horribly sensationalist.
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The current "hate" is of the sort "I don't want a ground zero Mosque just like a Japanese wouldn't want Disneyland Hiroshima"
No, the current "hate" is of the sort "Any mosque built in New York City is a Ground Zero mosque and a deliberate and malicious attempt to mock good (Christian) Americans, because it's impossible that there might be groups of Muslims in New Yorn City who actually want to practice their religion, and even if they are they need to respect our nutty theories". Can you see how that kind of dehumanisation is likely lead to other, more nasty forms of hate?
Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:5, Informative)
It takes generations to remove hate from a culture, but it only takes a few years to generate it.
Assuming it ever really leaves. . .
The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe [gatestoneinstitute.org]
The New Anti-Semitism [washingtonpost.com]
Is Toulouse the Future of Europe? [commentarymagazine.com]
If you dont think hate is being generated here in the USA by "news channel talk show hosts" or "radio talk show hosts", then you havent been paying attention.
The problem is bigger than you think [michellemalkin.com].
Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:5, Informative)
I know a few Iranian students, and from what I can tell, there is a *huge* gap between the people and the government in Iran. While the leaders are frantically screaming and warmongering, the population just sighs, shake their heads, and go on living. The petty rules are simply ignored whenever they can. Civil disobedience is a national hobby. I love that attitude. This is especially true in the larger cities that are more modern than you might think.
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I know a few Iranian students, and from what I can tell, there is a *huge* gap between the people and the government in Iran. While the leaders are frantically screaming and warmongering, the population just sighs, shake their heads, and go on living. The petty rules are simply ignored whenever they can. Civil disobedience is a national hobby. I love that attitude. This is especially true in the larger cities that are more modern than you might think.
What you describe is a relic of a past. Until 1953, iran was quite democratic, progressive and western-oriented country. Unfortunately, great britain and US were afraid, that iran will align with soviet russia and orchestraded coup d'état which transfered the power to authoritan leader and later to religious groups. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat [wikipedia.org] or the movie/comix Persepolis, if your are interested about actions which lead to current situation.
Unfortunately the actions
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It's a totally fucked up world under Islam and more often than not the "new Hitler" will come from a fucked up world, not from places like the West.
You need to make up your mind. You can't say things like the new Hitler will come from a fucked up world, not from places like a fucked up world and still expect us to listen.
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Iran's ideological position on women is archaic and disturbing. But to suggest that the West isn't fucked up in it's own special way (and doesn't have issues with how it treats women - seeing how this was your main argument for qualifying civilisation) is myopic to say the least.
As for painting all mulims with the same brush - why do you think so many of them are trying to immigrate if everything is so fabulous at home?
Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists (Score:5, Insightful)
But the original Hitler came from the west not from a fucked up place.
What exactly do you suppose you would call Germany, post WW1? Hyperinflation isnt typically the mark of a great place to live.
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Hitler was Austrian, dumbass.
That's correct, but unhelpful. The issue is that it has to be understood from within the context of German unification, which had been a political project in what is now Germany through a lot of the second half of the 19th century. This ran out of steam somewhat toward the end of that century, but it was all recent enough — especially during Hitler's childhood — that it wasn't a ridiculous thing. An Austrian could claim to be german, and everyone would agree with that even knowing the facts of t
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The problem areas in the American fiscal environment are pretty well known. I don't think anyone would seriously try to blame Muslims for them as it would be obvious nonsense.
FDR knew that the funding mechanism for Social Security had to change long term, and it has never been done. And please spare us from nonsense about wars and defense spending being the problem, because they aren't. Rapidly increasing social welfare spending mixed with soaring debts, and an economy that is frozen by government meddli
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If you don't know about the "above jibber-jabber" then don't fucking reply. Reply where it's pertinent, or start your own "thread" by replying to the story itself.
This was to be expected regardless of this video (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This was to be expected regardless of this vide (Score:4, Interesting)
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Would be interesting to know where they are sourcing their networking equipment from and how much trust they are placing in the hardware/firmware.
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Wasn't Stuxnet transmitted by the good old fashioned "dropped" flash drive trick? I'm pretty sure these two events are unrelated. The Iranian theocracy wants control. This is just another vector by which to achieve it.
I wonder if someday this could be done here (Score:5, Interesting)
in the United States. Large swaths of the country are deeply religious, by which I mean some stripe of Christianity. They have grown increasingly suspicious (if not downright scornful) of scientists and educators who challenge their views and threaten to corrupt the views of their children. I suspect that many of these folks sincerely see unrestricted search engines and an uncensored internet as tools of the devil. How far would public opinion have to tip before *all* searches are "safe" searches, and the "sanitized" web becomes the norm?
It seems unthinkable. But when 46% of the U.S. population earnestly believes that humans were created in their present form within the last 10,000 years, you have to be open to what happens if that number goes to 56%, or 96%.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/05/americans-believe-in-creationism_n_1571127.html [huffingtonpost.com]
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The number that believe in creationism has been pretty much constant for the past thirty years, according to the survey you cite. What makes you think that it's going to go up? And even if it does, what makes you so sure that belief in creationism correlates so closely to a desire to lock down the internet?
What exactly are you even getting at? That would should be afraid of "others"? Sounds like run-of-the-mill hate-mongering to me. No different from Rush Limbaugh moaning about how the US is on track t
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I don't think it's going to go up. But I'm appalled that it hasn't gone down, and that it's as high as it is.
And I'm not getting at anything. I just think it's unfortunate that entire countries are going on lockdown, and I wonder what it would take for the United States to institute such measures. Of course it won't happen tomorrow, or next year. But what about fifty years, or a hundred? Political, cultural, and religious landscapes change, and not always in ways that we'd expect. Do you think it's im
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I would temper your point to say that I don't see censorship as being the sole province of one political party in the United States. I know many fine Republicans and many fine Democrats. But some folks just plain don't like how accessible the seamier side of culture is on the web. They worry -- sincerely -- about the next generation growing up with values different from their own.
But yes, I agree that if you're willing to close your mind to basic science, and encourage others to do the same (by voting fo
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While the odds may seem low at the moment, the possibility of the rise of a Nehemiah Scudder scares me. (In a way, it's too bad Heinlein never wrote that story; then again, it leaves it as an interesting exercise for the reader.)
The U.S. is in trouble enough owing to that 46%. Does it increase another five or ten points, we're totally screwed. (Of course, it's still unknown if we'll survive the DHS. The combination of that with a theocracy would be beyond chilling.)
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"Logic of Empire" gives some small hints as to his rise.
Creationism stems from faithlessness (Score:2)
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Yes.
"faith means believing without proof. "
Faith does indeed mean beliving in what you cannot 'see'. That's the definition.
Many a biologist and many from other branches of science believe in Creation, and still believe in Science. Myself, I believe in Creation, but I have NO IDEA quite how God did it, nor do I need to to believe in God, because if He did NOT create everything, he is not the God He says He is. That is the logical puzzle you should consider first. Oh, and the small matter of Jewish histor
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But when 46% of the U.S. population earnestly believes that humans were created in their present form within the last 10,000 years, you have to be open to what happens if that number goes to 56%, or 96%.
46%? I know that number. Aren't those the people Mitt Romney said [nytimes.com] don't pay any taxes? Just as Mitt's numbers were a gross mischaracterization of nearly half the country, I would tend to question the assertion that 46% of the population supports religious censorship. In the United States no one is more aware of the ties between "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion" than the religious right. Their way of life couldn't exist without those. I've sat through sermons in numerous churches of different
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I did not say that 46% support censorship. 46% believe in Young Earth Creationism; I cited an article that posted the Gallup poll where that number came from.
Do I believe that every person of that 46% supports censorship? Absolutely not. But don't you wonder what percentage of Iranian citizens really support censorship? Even in a theocracy, people are people, and the people I know generally chafe at restrictions.
Draconian restrictions can be imposed by a government on a populace for their alleged safet
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In my previous reply I forgot to post the link to the poll:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx [gallup.com]
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I suspect that many of these folks sincerely see unrestricted search engines and an uncensored internet as tools of the devil. How far would public opinion have to tip before *all* searches are "safe" searches, and the "sanitized" web becomes the norm?
It's a fallacy to think that the US Christian population is the major drive in pushing Internet censorship. Look at the more advanced European countries where religious practice has been on decline. It doesn't seem we can go a single week here without hearing about yet another country-wide website blocking system being implemented in places like the UK, Germany, Sweden, etc.. At the moment, the US is the most free in regards to the Internet and has no country-wide censorship program.
Just because a popula
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I completely agree. But even in the United States, some people are willing to surrender personal liberty in exchange for safety. Then it all just comes down to what "safety" means.
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Doubtful. The advantages of control (because let's be honest, religion is just an excuse for control in those instances) are much less important than the disadvantages for a post-industrial country like the US. The entire economy of the US revolves around the services sector, and destroying the Internet would have profound impacts on that.
You can say what you will about the FBI, the MAFIAA, the DoD, etc. wanting more control, but there's a point where the encroachment would be too great to be financially be
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The article references a gallup poll stating that 46% believe in Young Earth Creationism. Here's the original poll:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx [gallup.com]
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For the record, I'm stil confused about something - gay marriage isn't illegal anywhere in the U.S. that I am aware of. It just isn't recognized in most states, and DOMA means it isn't recognized by the federal government.
Please, flame away, but I have several family members that are gay, got married, even adopted or birthed children, despite the states they live in not recognizing their union. THEY think they are married.
It's not about marriage, the ceremony happens all the time. It's about acceptance. A
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"You should have seen the wake of frustration I stirred up in my Church when I confessed to the Pastor that I was having fits over the faith doctrines and I had a lot of doubting Thomas in me.... I ended up downright asking if I had to be a liar and give up my personal integrity in order to be a proper church Christian... "
The churches I've been a member of have asked me if I believe. Do I believe in Christ, etc., you should know the drill. Beyond that, I'm at a loss as to what would be required of you.
Halal intranet (Score:5, Funny)
ok... can we have your IPv4 addresses.
Will they go IPv6? (Score:2)
Oh, wait, this is more of a YRO issue and less of a technical one.....
I'll get my coat.
Stop Feeding the Iranian Trolls (Score:2)
I wrote about this last week: viableawesomism.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-loudest-voices.html
The biggest trap is using the word "They". "They" are not all cast with the same brush.
By lumping everyone in Iran or in any other Muslim culture together and accusing them of what their extremists do,
you're giving the nutjobs fuel and eroding the sane people (sane Iranians in this case) who oppose them.
Iran is a Dictatorship.
The people who live in it have little say until they get the guts to start walking into the wa
You'll be missed, (Score:2)
assholes. I couldn't get into my bank all weekend to pay my bills thanks to you merry jokesters. [usatoday.com]
Want your own net? Suits me just fine. [youtube.com]
Key phrase (Score:4, Insightful)
And why should it. The large majority of the muslims just don't give a shit - like the large majority of the christians didn't give a shit when "Life of Brian" was released in theaters a few decades ago and the far-right protested by shutting down cinemas, burning books etc. The only way for the whole world to escape this religious stupidity that holds us back as a species is through technology and, I'm afraid, consumerism. Just load the middle east with a few million smartphones and tablets and watch them turn into the obedient "I don't give a fuck about god & associates, give me my new ipad" crowd we've all become
Ironically... (Score:3, Insightful)
...notwithstanding the fact that the Western media continues to paint the Middle East as a war torn, savage region of deserts and oil, the place is actually rather green (albeit warm), and 99% of the populace are generally happy with their individual lot, and peaceful. It's the disgruntled (for whatever reason) 1% who incite, most likely, IMHO, encouraged by Western influences* ::coughCIAcough::. Those same Western influences control Western media, so when unrest does happen, the cameras are already there. It's not a case of convenience, it's staged to deliberately destabilise the region and keep guns moving and blood money flowing.
OK, here's the list, in case you missed it:
CIA (and their list of "friendly" or "useful" individuals, al Qaeda)
MI6 (stop saying MI5, that's Internal Intelligence)
Puppet Governments (such as installed in Georgia - what, you didn't know the current President of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili, is a former New York lawyer?)
Common Purpose International ("leadership training" - which involves nudging, NLP, and is also used to find and neutralise leadership elements where such traits are not desired, by any means necessary)
Reality vs media, not blocked yet (Score:5, Informative)
The reality is the censorship is considered to be a complete joke - freegate or tor just goes right through it. The government is just wasting their time. Facebook, youtube and twitter are all "blocked" but everyone uses them. It only gets annoying when you're accessing wifi from a mobile device and don't have a VPN already set up.
There's a site called blockediniran.com which is pretty accurate - http://www.blockediniran.com/?siteurl=google.com [blockediniran.com] it shows that google.com is not blocked yet (but, for example, it can't understand that m.smh.com.au is a website). However, when I was there, every other country variant of google was blocked - google.com.au, google.co.uk, google.co.nz etc, and blockediniran confirms those.
It just hit me (Score:2)
Innocence of Muslims has been on Youtube since JULY.
Why the protests NOW?
-also-
Why is the US Government so set on blaming the US Diplomatic Mission killings on this video? Doesn't anyone else think that it might possibly have been preplanned, independently of some fourteen minute video, to coincide with the anniversary of the WTC demolition?? I mean, really?
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Innocence of Muslims has been on Youtube since JULY.
Why the protests NOW?
From the Wikipedia article:
Videos dubbed in the Arabic language were uploaded during early September 2012,[6] and were promoted by Morris Sadek by email and on the blog of the National American Coptic Assembly.[7] On September 9, 2012, an excerpt of the YouTube video was broadcast on Al-Nas TV, an Egyptian Islamist television station.[8][9] Demonstrations and violent protests against the film broke out on September 11 in Egypt and Libya, and spread to other Arab and Muslim nations and some western countries
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Not too much of a surprise to learn that the channel from which the video was broadcast had evolved from a pop culture channel to a militant islamist channel in only a few months... what better way to incite violence than to play such material to an already angered and captive audience?
Re:No big loss (Score:4, Insightful)
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we need to leave them to their own, we have already wasted tons of time and resources training them for fuck all of nothing, they just need to be cut loose, that way when they fuck up they cant come back whining and bitching like they do now.
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16
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Why use USB when you have microSD?
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Heh, you tried to build a Beowulf cluster in there, didn't you?
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Iranians backing the regime in their country are doing it because they're social conservatives. And, on the other side of the pond, most people in the R-camp are social conservatives as well. Oh, they'll start with taxes, but if you bear with them you'll hear it all about gays and godless atheists ruining the country.
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Some people and companies may continue to provide free (as in free beer) services for moral reasons though.
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Are you serious? All the citations you need are right here [thereligionofpeace.com]. Religion of peace, my ass.
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Iranians are not Arabs, but they are almost purely [cia.gov] Muslim [wikipedia.org]. 89-90% Shi'ite Muslim, 9% Sunni Muslim, and 0.4-2% all other religions. That doesn't leave much room for atheists and agnostics!
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Iranians are not Arabs, but they are almost purely [cia.gov] Muslim [wikipedia.org]. 89-90% Shi'ite Muslim, 9% Sunni Muslim, and 0.4-2% all other religions. That doesn't leave much room for atheists and agnostics!
It's not so much of a question of what religion you are, but how big of a factor that is in your decision making, and how much it impacts your opinion and behavior towards other people, especially violent behavior. For example, prior to the revolution, none of my female Iranian relatives in my dad's generation (what would be "baby-boomers" in the US) wore head coverings at all, and even those in my grandmother's generation only wore headscarves, not chadors (the black tent-like things). Most of the men dran