Google's CEO Says Tests of Censored Chinese Search Engine Have Been Very Promising (theverge.com) 158
At Wired's 25th anniversary summit, Google CEO Sundar Pichai said the company's internal tests developing a censored search engine in China have been very promising. Pichai is strengthening his commitment on the controversial search engine, codenamed Project Dragonfly, saying the potential to expose the world to more information is guiding Google's push into China. "We are compelled by our mission [to] provide information to everyone, and [China is] 20 percent of the world's population." Wired reports: Pichai was careful to emphasize that this was a decision that weighs heavy on the company. "People don't understand fully, but you're always balancing a set of values," in every new country, he said. Those values include providing access to information, freedom of expression, and user privacy. "But we also follow the rule of law in every country," he said. This is a reversal of a decision from about eight years, when Google pulled its search engine, which was also censored, from the Chinese market. Pichai said the time had come to reevaluate that choice. "It's a wonderful, innovative market. We wanted to learn what it would look like if we were in China, so that's what we built internally," Pichai said. "Given how important the market is and how many users there are," he added, "we feel obliged to think hard about this problem and take a longer-term view." In response to the company's decision to back out of a project with the Department of Defense, nicknamed Project Maven, to build AI and facial recognition technology, and the employee concerns surrounding it, Pichai said: "Throughout Google's history, we've given our employees a lot of voice and say. But we don't run the company by holding referendums. It's an important input. We take it seriously." On the issue of Maven, however, "it's more also the debate within the AI Community around how you perceive our work in the area."
Beta test for using in the US (Score:1, Informative)
After all, they can't let those pesky voters see just anything now, can they. They might not vote for the Dems.
Kanye left the Democrat thought plantation (Score:1, Insightful)
Kanye has dared to leave the Democrat's thought plantation, where failed 19th century redisitributionist economics are force-fed to infants to create social "justice" (AKA racist quotas) crybullies.
You can, too.
Think for yourself.
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I do. Which is why I usually ignore posts like yours.
Re: Kanye left the Democrat thought plantation (Score:2)
soon: worldwide! (Score:5, Insightful)
You thought the censored version was just for China?
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At this point, why not. They already hide large amounts of information from people via their bubbling. Adding the extra step of removing things that they don't like seems like the natural step in the right direction.
They really ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Leave Gmail (Score:3)
I got a Gmail address ver early on. I was able to get one that was essentially my full name@gmail.com. I must have something like 50,000 emails in that account.
I want out.
Questions are:
Which service is relatively new and might have more open addresses.
How do I get my 50k emails OUT of gmail and the IN to the new service.
I'd be willing to pay.
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Which service is relatively new and might have more open addresses. How do I get my 50k emails OUT of gmail and the IN to the new service.
Register your own domain name and have whatever e-mail address you want, including your full name if you like. There are domain registrars that even offer e-mail services: Hover, for one. It will cost you a relatively small amount of money on a recurring basis to host your e-mail with a provider like Hover, but it saves you the hassle of running your own e-mail server and it will give you complete control over your address.
I have not attempted this on the scale which you name (50,000 e-mail messages) but
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Which service is relatively new and might have more open addresses.
I've read good things about ProtonMail [protonmail.com]. It's the service I've been considering myself, although I haven't committed yet.
How do I get my 50k emails OUT of gmail and the IN to the new service.
Gmail supports IMAP, so you can do that with any IMAP-capable desktop email client such as Thunderbird. Configure both accounts in the client and simply copy the emails by hand. In my experience it's better to do this in batches of 100 to 500 emails at a time.
If you'd like something more automated, you can write a small Python script using the OfflineIMAP [github.com] module to first download you Gmail
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I'd go with the buy a service option. Namecheap, godaddy, and a bunch of others all offer relatively inexpensive mail services per year. Buy your domain and mail from a single vendor if you want a low-effort mail system almost as painless as GMail.
ProtonMail is a different beast. It works best between people that both use ProtonMail or equivalent clients. This basically goes back to PGP (now GPG) encrypted email, where clients encrypt their mail locally and the server only stores encrypted mail without th
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People that send you mail without having an encryption client, as far as I can tell, still have mail stored unencrypted (it would make little sense to encrypt it as ProtonMail would have those keys).
I don't think that's the case. On their Security [protonmail.com] page they say this:
"(...) your data is encrypted in a way that makes it inaccessible to us. Data is encrypted on the client side using an encryption key that we do not have access to. This means we don't have the technical ability to decrypt your messages, and as a result, we are unable to hand your data over to third parties. (...) For this reason, we are also unable to do data recovery. If you forget your password, we cannot recover your data."
The paid plan
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People that send you mail without having an encryption client, as far as I can tell, still have mail stored unencrypted (it would make little sense to encrypt it as ProtonMail would have those keys).
I don't think that's the case. On their Security [protonmail.com] page they say this:
"(...) your data is encrypted in a way that makes it inaccessible to us. Data is encrypted on the client side using an encryption key that we do not have access to. This means we don't have the technical ability to decrypt your messages, and as a result, we are unable to hand your data over to third parties. (...) For this reason, we are also unable to do data recovery. If you forget your password, we cannot recover your data."
Exactly - read what's there and what I said. There's no difference. :) Truly secure PGP (GPG) encrypted mail requires a unique Public/Private key pair on each unique email user's client(s) meaning that there could be multiple email clients in use by a single user on a single account. User A has a pair, and User B has a pair, for those 2 to communicate, they must first share their public keys. Which admittedly ProtonMail could be the repository of, or A & B could keep one or both locked away only to be s
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and no way for that mail to be encrypted
I think you're confusing two things. One is the encryption or lack thereof of the e-mail contents. Another is the encryption or lack thereof of the mailbox. Their mailbox is encrypted using the same same public key used to send PGP e-mail to you. As such, your private key is needed to unlock both the mailbox and, within it, the body of any PGP-encrypted e-mail. They explain this here.
So, while it's true that non-PGP-encrypted e-mail you received was sent and remained as plain text while in transit, after re
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Oops! The missing link: How to use PGP [protonmail.com].
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You need a private key to encrypt and anything you encrypt, you can decrypt.
No, you need a public key do encrypt. The private key is for decrypting. So, yes, they can encrypt anything you receive by having your public key, and they only you can read the encrypted version.
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No, you need a public key do encrypt. The private key is for decrypting. So, yes, they can encrypt anything you receive by having your public key, and they only you can read the encrypted version.
I see my data is outdated (I've not delved into the specifics in a really long time, obviously) Originally, the entire PGP process was RSA encryption, which IIRC required a private key. Now I see that PGP 2 and later shifted to a different non-compatible encryption scheme. Interesting. Always like learning new stuff.
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Thank You All.
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Feature Not Bug (Score:5, Insightful)
In the west, Google can only gather (and monetize) user data so much, before there starts to be public outcry, pushback, and Congressional hearings about them invading privacy to an unacceptable degree.
In China, Google can gather user data as much as it wants, and gathering more leads to ambivalence from the public (because they're used to it) and praise from the local government. They get to play out their dream of having every search be tied to a person; and of course every site that includes code from google analytics, doubleclick etc. is tied to that, so they'll know many sites that each person goes to (all, if they use Chrome or Android).
The proven most-effective pieces of personal data to harvest will be back-ported to Google's services around the rest of the world.
Re: Feature Not Bug (Score:1, Troll)
where is feckin-A antifa when they are really needed ?
Drinking beers with the other cops and gov't contractors - after they've taken off their 'agent provocateur' costumes, of course.
Re:Feature Not Bug (Score:5, Interesting)
In China the domestic platforms already do all that and more. For example WePay is pretty much the universal way to pay for stuff now, even random street vendors accept it right up to luxury hotels. Of course all the search and social media platforms monitor and allow the government full access. So the situation with regards to privacy is already dire.
In Europe Google has some of the strongest privacy controls of any major service. Way better than Facebook and Microsoft, for example. From what I read it's not too dissimilar in the US. You can go here to see the available controls: https://myaccount.google.com/p... [google.com]
So while it is possible that Google will abandon all that stuff for the Chinese market it's not certain, and perhaps we should at least see what they are proposing/doing first. If they did launch with even half those privacy controls it would be a huge deal for the Chinese market, making privacy a thing that people think and care about.
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In Europe Google has some of the strongest privacy controls of any major service. Way better than Facebook and Microsoft, for example. From what I read it's not too dissimilar in the US. You can go here to see the available controls: https://myaccount.google.com/p [google.com]...
In Europe Google Analytics is used to stalk users as they move from website to website the same as any other country. Browser signals that indicate user preference not to be stalked are summarily ignored by these services owned and operated by a company with "the strongest privacy controls".
Strongest privacy controls = requires you to create an account to manage the fate of SOME of the data they take from you regardless so for sure everything you do can most defiantly be tracked on an individual account ho
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In the west, Google can only gather (and monetize) user data so much, before there starts to be public outcry, pushback, and Congressional hearings about them invading privacy to an unacceptable degree.
In China, Google can gather user data as much as it wants, and gathering more leads to ambivalence from the public (because they're used to it) and praise from the local government. They get to play out their dream of having every search be tied to a person; and of course every site that includes code from google analytics, doubleclick etc. is tied to that, so they'll know many sites that each person goes to (all, if they use Chrome or Android).
The proven most-effective pieces of personal data to harvest will be back-ported to Google's services around the rest of the world.
You've just described fascism -- nominal private ownership with strong government control and partnership. The only thing missing is nationalism in rhetoric.
"(Such-and-such) solution is so very Chinese!"
n/m
Which people? (Score:1)
"People don't understand fully" indeed, but maybe they aren't the people you think...
F Google, use DuckDuckGo (Score:5, Insightful)
Deplatform Google. Hit them in the wallet, it's all they understand.
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Hit them in the wallet, it's all they understand.
Good luck with that. Using Duck Duck Go won't even register in the Google accounting department.
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Presumably DDG pays Google for the use of their search API anyway.
DDG's business model is to sell ads on its platform, so you have to trust that they won't use those to spy on you or infect your machine with malware. Unfortunately they seem to be using the Bing and Amazon ad networks.
Re:F Google, use DuckDuckGo (Score:4, Informative)
Presumably DDG pays Google for the use of their search API anyway.
No, they actually don't. [duck.co]
DDG's business model is to sell ads on its platform, so you have to trust that they won't use those to spy on you or infect your machine with malware. Unfortunately they seem to be using the Bing and Amazon ad networks.
They use bing, and curate the ads served. [duck.co] Something fundamentally different, remember when companies had their own ad hosts and only allowed specific ads? Yeah...those were the days before giant ad networks spewing malware. Oh, the other way is via affiliate links aka you click on a product they get a cut. They also don't follow you around the internet like a crazy ex that just can't seem to let go.
Re:F Google, use DuckDuckGo (Score:4, Interesting)
I tried their example of searching for "car", which they claim does not track you. I can't post the URL of the advert as plain text due to the lameness filter, so you will have to hover over the following:
ad link [duckduckgo.com]
So we have a bounce through yahoo.com, who do track you, "dartsearch.net" which is part of the DoubleClick network, a unique "ad_provider" ID and what looks like a number of other IDs. Also, it's HTTP, not even HTTPS, so now your ISP/employer has that data too.
Finally, the link that you claim says they curate ads actually says
By default, when you sign up for a Bing Ads account, your ads should automatically enter rotation into all of Bing's distribution channels including DuckDuckGo.
In other words they throw up whatever Bing deems to be okay.
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So we have a bounce through yahoo.com, who do track you, "dartsearch.net" which is part of the DoubleClick network, a unique "ad_provider" ID and what looks like a number of other IDs. Also, it's HTTP, not even HTTPS, so now your ISP/employer has that data too.
Strange because the result I see is fundamentally different. It's all HTTPS, the referrer ID is static when using different browsers, and only shows a different ID when using a VPN in turn a different country. Which is likely the reason that you're seeing something different. The ad server is the same - 'yhs' or yahoo.
In other words they throw up whatever Bing deems to be okay.
That's not what it says, and even at that unlike google they give you the option to "report bad ads."
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Good luck with that. Using Duck Duck Go won't even register in the Google accounting department.
That's kinda funny, because I remember when people said altavista would be around forever and google would never replace them.
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Comparing Altavista to the global monopoly that is Alphabet Inc which is being investigated for anti-competitive practices makes no sense.
A far more fitting comparison would be 1999 talking about 2000 being the year of linux on desktop. Altavista had functional superiority. That can easily be replaced. Google on the other hand is (to excuse my french) a fucking monster.
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Search is such a tiny part of Google so replacing with DDG isn't enough.
Gmail --> Protonmail
Youtube --> Bit.Tube
Maps --> Waze\H\H\H\H Well... I really hate that Google bought Waze
Nest --> EcoBee, Honeywell, Ring
Android --> Tizen, Gapps removed, Apple
Waymo --> Tesla, Uber, etc
What sucks is that Google is really hard to beat. They have the best talent and it sucks that they are abusing their power like this. I keep planing on deplatfroming them but it isn't easy when it works so well. They k
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You want to f Google? Turn off your javascript and stop using their products. The less javascript you use, the less you can be profiled. When google finds harder to sell targeted ads, it'll listen (do not forget Google is an advertising company, every single of its products revolves around gathering data for advertising).
Wait...WHAT? (Score:2, Interesting)
So, the system they're NOT developing and not going to use to help one of the most evil governments on Earth oppress people is moving further along throught the development process and the testing is looking good? (or is that "bad" since it's intended for extreme evil?)
Note to Google: 70+ years after WWII, IBM is still thought of by many as evil because they knowingly helped the NAZI regime procees the paperwork in their oppression program. Rolling the dice on China ia a HUGE gamble. If China ends up as the
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Considering the US itself is moving in the direction of an authoritarian regime, another way to look at it is that Google are simply preparing for a possible future. They'll already have the tech in place if they're required to suppress dissident notions.
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You have two major figures in a political party outright calling for incivility and violence. You have many more people in that party calling for court packing or outright abolition of court oversight on pretty much every abuse of power imaginable. Smells like authoritarianism to me.
well google (Score:5, Insightful)
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Oh come now, Chase Bank is still around today and is still one of the largest and they directly worked with the Nazis. Chances are high that if you're in the US, you either bank with Chase, your company does, your landlord does, or someone else in your life dealing with a large amount of your money.
You buy products from China. You send internet traffic to China. Don't say you don't - unless you live in a cardboard box you do, and even the people in a cardboard box (typically) have a cheap mobile phone, or u
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People on Slashdot think too narrowly.
You cannot shut off China's totalitarianism. It's too well entrenched and the truth is many Chinese historically prefer a harmonious society rather than an American definition of a free one. The only way to change it is gradually.
If China doesn't have Google build this system, then they'll hire Alibaba or Tencent to do it. With Google doing it, an American company has the technology there, meaning there's an option to understand what is going on and possibly influenc
Re: well google (Score:1)
Influence Google?? Lololololololol, exactly how do you propose that is going to happen? Google is found to be more evil every fucking year. We all know it. We talk about it. Some nerds whine about it. But absolutely no one outside Google has any influence whatsoever what happens inside google.
They are so deeply evil they make the scumbags at FB look righteous.
Re: well google (Score:3)
Thatâ(TM)s why a lot of responses here are misguided, China can make their own tech and will reject American influence peddling there, or data collection. This is a symbolic coin of some sort if it happens, part of a bigger deal...
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If an american company is doing it, and has the technology there -- it just means that in 6 months to a year, all the Chinese companies will also have that same technology.
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Yeah, that's what every major company said about investing in China. Look where that got us: Tiananmen Square in the 80s.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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"Hans ... are we the baddies?"
Of course not Franz. The God-Emperor protects, bask in his radiant glory as a 1000 psykers are killed each day to protect us from chaos.
Google is rolling the dice (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm amazed that Google wants to play this dangerous game. Who will benefit most is yet to be seen (sure as fuck won't be the plebs worldwide).
China will eventually access and copy every bit of Google's data when they place on-site servers with the proper credentials to access anything stateside. This may really be a trap for China to suck away all of Google's information, not the other way around.
That is, if they aren't already being partially blackmailed into this move because someone stateside already m
Promising in what sense? (Score:3, Insightful)
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But of course (Score:5, Insightful)
As Google already has a lot of experience censoring US search results, they're a natural to cooperate with the Communist Party of China. The whole brouhaha started when Google was going to use its power of search to bring down the CPC. This was at the time of the color revolutions and Google was feeling its oats. Moreover they still had the "Don't Be Evil" motto back then. Ah, memories.
With Google's proven expertise in censorship and new-found willingness to be evil, I see a happy and prosperous future ahead for the CPC. They're going to need it, China is heading for a rocky time and they'll need every bit of help they can get repressing their own people.
Minister of Love says ... (Score:2)
... big brother watchmachine is doubleplusgood. All bow before the almighty chairman, all bow before the almighty Google.
*Kneels and lapses into praising*
Aaaaaaaaaaah,Goooooogle, aaaaaaaaaaah, Rama Rama Goooogle ...
Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
Pichai: "People don't understand fully, but you're always balancing a set of values,"
Yeah, right. On one side "Human Rights" values and on the other "Money".
We clearly know your balances...
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That's why we need to move the fulcrum towards 'money' (which is, now that I think about it, a poor metaphor).
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Values (Score:2)
Those values include providing access to information, freedom of expression, user privacy, and how to exploit them.
There, fixed that for you.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Says the person by typing "china is evil" into their keyboard that's made in china, connected to a computer with most components made in china, sending over an internet router made in china, very likely to an ISP using equipment also made in china...
But that's OK, it's only evil to financially support china when it is someone you don't like. Yourself and everyone you like, it's perfectly fine to do.
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That's a good point. So, why are people protesting against Trump wanting to bring manufacturing back and out of China again?
By-the-by though, if you look at a lot of computer hardware you'll find that a lot of isn't even made, manufactured, fabbed in China these days. Malaysia and Thailand are the hot manufacturing, fabbing places right now...at least until wages start rising. Interesting thing in that, people say countries "don't have long term plans" and all that. If it was true, you wouldn't see Chin
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It makes me wonder (Score:1, Flamebait)
Google has been a home to many SJWs,
yet they are the best in the business to offer fake news, manipulate results, track people with or without consent, spy on their users, treat their users as products and now here's another example of how proud they would've made Himmler.
"get your censored search engine from the people's SJW-driven company NAO"
"did the Natzees hurt your feelings? Don't worry, because diversity and inclusion always win. Get your Censored service for only $99.95. The first 10 orders get STD
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Zyklon B testers say project is very promising (Score:1)
Pichai needs to go (Score:2)
The best education money can buy (Score:3)
Dreaming of getting a top internet job after graduation.
Finally getting the best internet job.
Now working hard to totally control the net for Communist China.
Google testing for widespread use? (Score:1)
Is Google interested in creating a censored China engine because it can be tested for possible deployment in the US or elsewhere? You have to wonder if many of these companies like Google find it attractive to be able to influence through search? For me Google's actions get more disturbing everyday, even the fact many of their empoyee's can now dictate what the company does and what projects to work on. Similar actions are taking place now at Microsoft where some employees don't want to company involved in
Profit motive (Score:1)
Google's values - pro-China, anti-America? (Score:5, Insightful)
China is an oppressive dictatorship that uses censorship to control its people. America is a democracy that values free and open information. Google values free and open information. Who is that Google wants to help and who is it that Google refuses to help?
This is f'd up.
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Whats really funny is they will, in the end, have all of their IP stolen by China and come screaming and crying to the DOJ to help them. I see it with other companies every day.
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" Why are they so eager to do business with a dictatorship that openly seeks to crush the US, while refusing to do business with the Department of Defense? "
If Google decides to go forward with their Chinese project, the US Department of Defense may force them into a choice.
You can either work with us, or with the Chinese. But not both.
Then again, it may come with US Intelligence's blessings as a view inside of China. So, publicly, the USG gives them hell, but secretly, ( those benefits they spoke of ) t
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The answer to that is easy. You see, the US has an R in power, so that's evil and wrong. You can't support the right, they do evil things. But China has a communist government, and communists are on the left. And as we all know, the left can't do anything evil, because they aren't on the right, so it's alright to help them. I mean, Marx was great after all, wasn't he?
What's sad is, I'm moderately certain that there's a few people who actually think like that.
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Because the US military has invaded and continue launching [evergreen.edu] wars for over one hundred years, not counting the illegal occupation of Texas, California, and Hawaii, whereas China at most flickering with some regions and islands that they already have some (pre-PRC, typically internationally recognized) historical claims, and at the same time dramatically improve the actual human rights situation, comparing to the Qing and ROC periods, through economic development.
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Thanks for the laugh. So you're saying the islands, that the UN condemned , are internationally recognized? Yes, recognized as being illegal.
Please, tell me more about the illegal occupation of Texas, California and Hawaii.
We misunderstood this whole time (Score:1)
It was always:
Don't, be evil.
Dragonfly - Sergey Brin's Yacht's Name (Score:5, Insightful)
The market there is already saturated for search engines, so its not like Google is going to make alot of money - but the moral standing Google has for not being there is valuable which the Google CEO doesn't seem to comprehend. Pichai is doing great for the stock price, but seems to have no moral compass other than do what makes the most money right now - its as if Scrooge is running the place. He does need to go - but the shareholders are loving this no concern for moral issues type of management style (Facebook style really), so no.
Whether the water's salty or fresh, scum floats (Score:2)
Anybody who believes this is about giving the Chinese people more information just isn't paying attention. It's the exact opposite. This is about perfecting a censor-friendly search engine that will be jammed down our throats one way or another.
Bullshit (Score:1)
Filtering != Killer drones (Score:1)
Google Translate (Score:2)
Corporate Speak -> English
A billion potential users is a lot of extra advertising and other data mining related revenue. We cannot resist.