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Google The Courts United States

Court Rules Google's Search Results Qualify As Free Speech 137

wabrandsma writes with this news from Ars Technica: The regulation of Google's search results has come up from time to time over the past decade, and although the idea has gained some traction in Europe (most recently with "right to be forgotten" laws), courts and regulatory bodies in the U.S. have generally agreed that Google's search results are considered free speech. That consensus was upheld last Thursday, when a San Francisco Superior Court judge ruled in favor of Google's right to order its search results as it sees fit.
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Court Rules Google's Search Results Qualify As Free Speech

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  • by rossdee ( 243626 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2014 @08:54AM (#48410141)

    Maybe it will get appealed to the SCOTUS. Or congress will change the legislation relevant to this. Remember what happened to Rick Santorum...

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Why would there be a challenge? And if there were, why would SCOTUS agree to hear it? Both the Supreme Court and Republicans love the idea of corporations as people, hence free speech rights for these groups. If the liberal jurisdiction supports big corporations' free speech rights, how much more will SCOTUS and the Republican majority?

      --MyLongNickname

    • by dywolf ( 2673597 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2014 @09:23AM (#48410333)

      No I dont remember what happened to Rick Santorum.
      Elighten me.

      The only thing I can remember about Rick Santorum is how he repeatedly makes a fool of himself, by saying things like "President Obama wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob."

      Or how he was pro choice until he ran for Congress....
      Or compared the ACA to apartheid....
      Or how he to believes global arming is a hoax and junk science....in his so very expert scientific opinion....
      Or how its also his, very expert, opinion that is tons of tons of coal and oil left, more than enough for centuries of use....
      Or how he though they were just killin old folks in the Netherlands...
      Or how he proposed that the National Weather Service not be allowed to release weather data to the public for free...even though we already paid for it via taxes and it's their job, cause it might compete with for profit companies who sell weather data...
      Or how wants to change the American Legal system so it aligns with the Bible...while at the same time opposing the idea of Sharia Law, and somehow maintaining that his goal is totally different...
      Or how he stated that the Right to Privacy doesn't exist in the Constitution, which was how he defending the banning of homosexuality under sodomy laws (you know, "what happens in private between consenting adults is no one's business"....well Santorum thought it was his business)...

      Guess I remember more than I thought.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by dywolf ( 2673597 )

        Oh, he is also opposed to libertarianism within the Republican Party and wants to kick it out of the party.
        So there's one plus in his favor.

        • Libertarians are hated by both parties for the exact opposite reasons, which is to say for the exact same reasons: the features of each party that make it a massive blight on human life.

          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward
            Libertarians are disliked because they're selfish arrested-development cases, not because they're somehow better than civilized people. If you're over 25, and are still a dumbass Libertarian, you fail at life.
          • I could never vote for one, from a simply pragmatic standpoint, but I also kind of like them, just for their unabashed honesty in their bone-headed ideas. You don't get that from the major parties.
      • by i kan reed ( 749298 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2014 @09:28AM (#48410357) Homepage Journal

        Okay, let's enlighten you, since you asked.

        Some technically inclined homosexual people, who were tired of Santorum using them as both a legal and verbal punching bag, got together and decided that they'd name something kinda gross after him. Then they used their technical prowess to make that the new definition for "Santorum" the top google result for that search.

        The OP thinks that this kind of political protest is a reason why the governments wouldn't view google search results as free speech, but it's quite clear that the opposite is true.

        • by dywolf ( 2673597 )

          that is kind of funny.
          I wasnt really ranting against the OP, just against Santorum.
          I just had no idea what he was referring to as I had never heard that story and google wasnt turning anything up.

          On the one hand I hope he runs again, for the entertainment value.
          On the other hand...there is a danger, remote, but it exists, that he could win.

        • Hardly technically inclined. And hardly a group of homosexuals.

          It was proposed in a column of Savage Love (Dan savage is not technical), and acted upon (after the definition contest) by his readers, which I suspect are majority heterosexuals.

          Not trying to nip pick, but portraying an act of protest with broad support as a homosexual conspiracy plays into the right's opinion of who wants equality, and who is appalled by people such as santorum.

      • Or how he stated that the Right to Privacy doesn't exist in the Constitution, which was how he defending the banning of homosexuality under sodomy laws (you know, "what happens in private between consenting adults is no one's business"....well Santorum thought it was his business)...

        I'm not defending Santorum at all because I think he's pretty stupid, but the right to privacy does not exist in the Constitution. It's never mentioned. The Supreme Court has ruled that such a right is inferred by the other things in the Constitution, but strictly speaking he does have a valid point. A different Supreme Court such as the current one might well have come to the other conclusion that if it's not mentioned explicitly, it doesn't exist.

        • by dywolf ( 2673597 )

          It is because it is very heavily implied that I must take the stance that it does exist in the document.
          I would hold that an implied existence, particularly existence that is foundational to many pillars of our legal system, is existence.

        • The Constitution states and presumes there are other unenumerated rights not listed. So for a law against gay sex, you have to ask the next question: What in the Constitution grants government the power to regulate it?

        • by AvitarX ( 172628 )

          I personally see:

          The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

          As a right to privacy. It is spelled out, not just stated that it exists. The edges of what that means for legislating things is in the jurisdiction of the courts.

  • Responsibilitiy (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 18, 2014 @09:03AM (#48410191)

    So, if Google's search results are considered free speech, do they also have the same responsibilities as other forms of free speech.
    What if you search for a person and the results incorrectly suggests that the person is a pedophile? Does that qualify as libel, or is that suddenly not Google's problem?

    • by ndato ( 3482697 )
      What are those free speech responsibilities?...

      Anyway, it isn't google's problem, someone else wrote "person A is a pedophile", not google. And if you read that and say "hey, that's true!" and tell your friends, should it be your responsibility too?

      Internet is full of people saying lies about other companies, or saying lies about history events, or saying lies about news, and so on, facebook is full of that.. so, should we erase all of that? I think the responsibility is in you, in taking serious or not
    • by Chrisq ( 894406 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2014 @09:21AM (#48410317)

      So, if Google's search results are considered free speech, do they also have the same responsibilities as other forms of free speech.

      Hey I've just looked this theater up on Google and it says that it's on FIRE!

    • by dywolf ( 2673597 )

      What I wonder is how is text generated by computer, by algorithm, considered "speech" ?

      • by ndato ( 3482697 )

        What I wonder is how is text generated by computer, by algorithm,

        programmed by people

        considered "speech" ?

        • The algorithm that produces the search results, and the order in which they appear is clearly crafted with intentions that its results are predictable based of the knowledge they applied to it. The order is akin to free speech, and the results are chosen by Google. This is merely expressing that they are right to choose the order they see fit in what they see published.

        • by dywolf ( 2673597 )

          but do they legally consider that as "speaking" and "expressing thoughts in the marketplace of ideas" when a computer program gives an output?
          some outputs i can see saying yes (print Manifesto).

          but i have trouble seeing the same logic applied to search results, or other computation.
          that kind of output, that of program, isnt so much ME the programmer saying anything,
          but actually me asking the computer to do a task and provide me an answer to a question i didnt know.
          and if i didnt know, how can it be consider

          • It's Google's software, so whatever it comes up with is Google's responsibility (however far that extends). Legally, responsibility is a human thing, and if you set up a program that does something harmful, you're on the hook.

      • The point isn't the exact text, but the ranking of websites in the search results.

        From the article:

        The owner of a website called CoastNews, S. Louis Martin, argued that Google was unfairly putting CoastNews too far down in search results, while Bing and Yahoo were turning up CoastNews in the number one spot. CoastNews claimed that violated antitrust laws.

        So CoastNews was upset because it wasn't #1 in Google's listings. They sued Google to try to force Google to make them #1 and lost. Google has the right

        • by dywolf ( 2673597 )

          the idea of using a different product is fine. i have no problem there.

          my problem is justifying or protecting google's delivered product under the concept of free speech itself.
          to me that's not the proper way to protect it. I see the algorithm as a dumb black box.
          it gets an input, does some computation, and it spits out an output.
          i see the output is an answer to the question (input) not known in advance.

          and i have trouble seeing that computational output as "speech".
          i feel there should be a better way to pr

          • and "free speech" shouldnt be a protection against those laws. kind of like using the 1st Amendment to protect the practice of discrimination, as some have been wont to do recently)

            The first amendment contains more than the right to free speech. It also contains the right of free association which is what is used to defend discriminatory practices.

            It also contains freedom of the press which I think much more closely fits the situation of Google's search results algorithm. Google is allowed to publish what it wants however it wants, within the bounds of libel/slander and related (e.g. fraud) laws. So, while the results of the algorithm may not be "speech", Google's right to publish

      • What I wonder is how is text generated by computer, by algorithm, considered "speech" ?

        The correct question, thst any citizen of a free society should be asking, is "Where in the hell does the Constitution aithorize government to re-order computer-generated results?

        In any case, Google, i.e. its owners, can, by the act of publishing it, say it is their speech regardless of origin. The government cannot touch.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

      Do US credit ratings agencies use free speech as a defence against keeping detailed files on people and then selling the information to other companies? Or are there some legal limits on what they are allowed to "say"? If so, why is Google not governed by the same rules?

      • They have a specific law protecting them, so they don't use Free Speech as a defense. Free Speech does not defend against false statements - slander or libel.
        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

          In the EU credit rating agencies are not allowed to report bankruptcies beyond a certain age, or spent criminal convictions. I was asking if that was the case in the US, or if those things are basically marks on your permanent record.

          • In the US, bankruptcies are supposed to last on your record for no more 7 years.

            That said, sometimes debt companies try to avoid that law and you have to sue them to remove debts cleared by bankruptcy - which often costs more than the debt would have cost to pay off.

            • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

              Right, so back to my point, how come credit reference agencies are required to stop recording bankruptcies after 7 years but Google is not? Both supply information about a person as a commercial service... I'm failing to see a real difference. A bank looking for a credit reference can just ask Google for data, the same way they can ask a credit reference agency.

              • Google is not expect to be extensive, it just reports what it can find. Their algorithms tend to be very good at recent stuff, but practically worthless for long term stuff. Go and try a search - even if you have someone's name chances are it won't find any bankruptcies that are over 7 years. You will find lawyers doing bankruptcy work. If you add in a date or year, you might get it - but if you already have the date, you already know about the bankruptcy. You definitely will not know if this is the 'r
    • So, if Google's search results are considered free speech, do they also have the same responsibilities as other forms of free speech. What if you search for a person and the results incorrectly suggests that the person is a pedophile? Does that qualify as libel, or is that suddenly not Google's problem?

      It's not Google's problem to report that somebody else made a libelous claim any more than if you tell your neighbor "Hey, that guy John Doe down the street put on the internet that you're a convicted child molester but I know that's not true", your neighbor would have a legal claim against John Doe, not against you for telling him. The fact that Google reports a search result doesn't make them responsible for the content in the USA. Things might be different in Europe though.

    • What if you search for a person and the results incorrectly suggests that the person is a pedophile?

      The only problem arises when you believe it. Google isn't responsible. The reader is. The reader is responsible for how he uses and reacts to what he sees. Google has no responsibility whatsoever, except to filter the results the the users' desires, not the state's

    • What if you search for a person and the results incorrectly suggests that the person is a pedophile? Does that qualify as libel,

      I can't help but spot the word "suggest," as it's so critical. Forget Google: what if a natural person incorrectly suggests someone else is a pedophile? That wouldn't normally be libel, would it? (Would that be libel even in the UK, where the libel standards are so relatively loose? Serious question.)

      I can tell you as a reader, there is a huge night-and-day difference between re

    • by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

      So, if Google's search results are considered free speech, do they also have the same responsibilities as other forms of free speech.
      What if you search for a person and the results incorrectly suggests that the person is a pedophile? Does that qualify as libel, or is that suddenly not Google's problem?

      It's not-so-suddenly non Google's problem -- specifically it's not Google's problem ever since the passage of the Communications Decency Act and the section 230(c) immunity [cornell.edu] in back in 1996.

      If you search for a

    • by anegg ( 1390659 )

      I interpret Google's search results being regarded as speech as recognizing that Google can choose how to tell people what information Google has indexed on various web sites. In other words, when Google crawls the web, builds an index, then allows you to conduct searches against their index, they can return the results to you however they want to. If you don't like it, you can build your own web-crawling, indexing, and search engines and have at it.

      As such, Google is just telling people what is out ther

  • While I agree with the ruling, I don't see how the first amendment applies. It states that "Congress shall make no law..." but since this was a civil case, and did not involve congress, how does the first amendment apply? Google should win the case simple because Google can do whatever they want in their search results. It is as simple as that. Applying the term "free speech" or "first amendment" to a computer generated algorithm seems like a slippery slope to me.

      I just read the ruling: the case was dismissed because "the claims asserted against it arise from constitutionally protected activity..." so nothing to get excited about here...

    • by bws111 ( 1216812 )

      It was a lawsuit claiming Google broke a law. If there can be no law, there can be no lawsuit.

      • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

        It was a lawsuit claiming Google broke a law.

        Not it was not. No one claimed Google broke any law, and the government was not on either side of the case. This was a civil case, where someone thought Google was treating them unfairly.

        • by bws111 ( 1216812 )

          From TFA (emphasis mine):
           

          The owner of a website called CoastNews, S. Louis Martin, argued that Google was unfairly putting CoastNews too far down in search results, while Bing and Yahoo were turning up CoastNews in the number one spot. CoastNews claimed that violated antitrust laws. It also took issue with Google's refusal to deliver ads to its website after CoastNews posted photographs of a nudist colony in the Santa Cruz mountains.

          • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

            Okay, I stand corrected. So they invoked antitrust law. Maybe first amendment angle was just to get people riled up. Arggh, I think legal reporting is almost as bad as technology reporting. Although overall arstechnica is pretty good on that.

        • It was a lawsuit claiming Google broke a law.

          Not it was not. No one claimed Google broke any law, and the government was not on either side of the case. This was a civil case, where someone thought Google was treating them unfairly.

          Are you kidding?!? It was specifically a claim that Google broke a law - 15 U.S.C. 1–7 by not ranking using the same criteria as Bing and Yahoo (which is ridiculous anyway, since Yahoo is "powered by Bing!" so of course it has the same rankings).

          You can read more about the Sherman Antitrust Act here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]

          • I'm intrigued by this theory that, if two corporations act differently, without any collaboration, that's a violation of anti-trust law.

        • by ranton ( 36917 )

          It was a lawsuit claiming Google broke a law.

          Not it was not. No one claimed Google broke any law, and the government was not on either side of the case. This was a civil case, where someone thought Google was treating them unfairly.

          Even though the government was not a plaintiff or defendant, it is still our laws that are being used to determine if the lawsuit wins. In this particular case it was anti-trust laws which were being examined.

    • by Jason Levine ( 196982 ) on Tuesday November 18, 2014 @09:50AM (#48410519) Homepage

      I think the quote from UCLA law professor Eugene Volok in the article stated it best:

      ”Newspapers, guidebooks—and, for that matter, Ars Technica—have a First Amendment right to choose which stories are worth publishing, and which businesses are worth covering,” Volokh wrote to Ars in an e-mail. “Likewise, Google (a modern heir of the guidebook) can choose which pages to prominently display (and thus implicitly recommend as relevant and interesting) to readers and which pages aren’t worth displaying so prominently—or aren’t worth displaying at all.”

      Think of Google as a massive guidebook. You ask it for information on X and it returns a list of results that it thinks (based on the algorithms) best match X. If someone made a list of "Top 10 Restaurants in New York City" and a restaurant owner was upset that his restaurant didn't make the list, would he be able to sue to get his included as the #1 restaurant in NYC? Of course not. The list publisher has the right to determine who they think are the top 10 restaurants. Likewise, Google has the right to determine who they think are the top matches for any given search.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by jedidiah ( 1196 )

        So this is actually a freedom of the press issue?

        That at least seems to be more relevant, make more sense, and avoids expanding this whole "corporations are people" nonsense.

        You can do the right thing and still do it for the wrong reason and manage to cause collateral damage. This is another fine case of that.

        • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

          A few other people chimed in and pointed out quotes indicating that the lawsuit might have been based on antitrust claims. That makes more sense than the first amendment thing.

      • I think that is a very true and logical assessment. It's just unfortunate that Google has become so ubiquitous. People can choose to use another search engine, but rarely do. It's already very difficult to run a business if Google isn't putting your business high in their ranks. I believe for the time being the listing process is mostly working, but as they continue on I worry that Google could become the gatekeepers of the internet. Pay the fee and kiss the ring or the internet will never know you exist.

        • True, but if you are going to sue Google, you had better be able to prove that Google lowered your ranking with malicious intent. That is, not because you weren't following SEO rules that they apply to all websites but because Google just decided "we don't like this guy" and ranked you lower. If your argument is "we want to be the first listing and we're going to file suit to make this so", then you deserve to lose.

    • It states that "Congress shall make no law..." but since this was a civil case, and did not involve congress, how does the first amendment apply?

      Without Congress creating the court, how can there be a civil case? The court's decisions would be unenforcible, and they wouldn't have laws by which to judge cases anyway.

  • Google's right to order its search results as it sees fit.

    You mean, to present them from least relevant to totally irrelevant?

    • If "totally irrelevant" is a member of set A, the least relevant member of set A is "totally irrelevant."
      Therefore set A has only one member, or it's a multiset with multiple values of "totally irrelevant" present.

  • Google is a business and has every right to be as silly as the Enquirer if it wants to be. And ... ... where are all the OTHER brazillion search engines in all this?

    Google, Google, Google, why is it always Google? Momma always did like Google, best.

  • And similar sites? After all, they don't host the content, they merely provide a search engine for the content.

    Legal double standard in 3...2...1...

  • Now, robots have rights.
  • It isn't always clear at a distance where a state court stands in the larger scheme of things and how much weight should be given its decisions.

    In California, a Superior Court is simply one of 58 consolidated county and municipal trial courts.

    Before June 1998, California's trial courts consisted of superior and municipal courts, each with its own jurisdiction and number of judges fixed by the Legislature. In June 1998, California voters approved Proposition 220, a constitutional amendment that permitted the judges in each county to merge their superior and municipal courts into a ''unified,'' or single, superior court. As of February 2001, all of California's 58 counties have voted to unify their trial courts.

    Superior Courts [ca.gov]

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