Facebook's Graph Search: Kiss Your Privacy Goodbye 245
Nerval's Lobster writes "Software developer Jeff Cogswell is back with an extensive under-the-hood breakdown of Facebook's Graph Search, trying to see if peoples' privacy concerns about the social network's search engine are entirely justified. His conclusion? 'Some of the news articles I've read talk about how Graph Search will start small and slowly grow as it accumulates more information. This is wrong—Graph Search has been accumulating information since the day Facebook opened and the first connections were made in the internal graph structure,' he writes. 'People were nervous about Google storing their history, but it pales in comparison to the information Facebook already has on you, me, and roughly a billion other people.' There's much more at the link, including a handy breakdown of graph theory."
Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
You kissed your privacy goodbye when you signed up for a social network.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Informative)
As soon as you saw (not clicked!) the Like button, for that matter.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Funny)
As soon as I wrote that I was CEO of Shell Oil, owner of the US Treasury and as a imigrant from Jupiter, I lost all privacy. It is they who are cursed, not I.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
Never heard of data aggregation?
Are you friends with any on facebook, for example? They can extrapolate things about you from even that.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, as much info I have in there is fake, I can't convince my friends who grew up with facebook in college to fake everything. They know things, I show up in pictures, I get invited to events, ect. The fake stuff makes it more difficult, but not impossible. Its like a single DES encryption. Just really there to deter those with out the motivation to crack.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly.
Fake all you want to, they still have you nailed.
People who doubt this should RTFA.
YARNTDFB (Score:2)
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This is why I left facebook in November. I mean delete account facebook, not deactivate facebook. Granted they might have old data kicking around, though it is out of date. I realised that the power of facebook is its ability to extrapolate you on your friends. You can't give in fake info based on what you like, events that you are tagged in, etc, etc. That is very very dangerous IMO...
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To really leave facebook, you're gonna have to take off and nuke it from orbit. And by "it," I mean all their data centers and anywhere their backups reside. Because just because you're no longer adding info -- indeed, even if you've never joined at all -- they're still accumulating it.
Not that leaving facebook is a bad idea, though. At least you're not intentionally adding more personal information, and that's worth something.
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According to their privacy statement, at least the last time I read it, they purge your data after 90 days, and then purge their cold backups after 180 days.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure they do.
And if the FBI comes looking for it 190 days later (with or without a warrant) are they just going to say, "Sorry, we can't help you"?
I'd love it to be true, but somehow I doubt it...
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but do you believe that Facebook will actually do that?
This from a guy (Zuckerburg) that said his users were idiots for trusting him. Repeatedly he has lied, deceived and cheated his business associates, users, and media.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Insightful)
But they don't purge spot for "friendX 1172" connected to your other friends. Basically they just take "your" name out and then fill it back in from other people's data.
It's like how Google already has you by search terms, and web page cookies, and location/zip code before YOU ever actually sign into the service. So you can get "your" ads after a few minutes of surfing anonymously at the library.
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Absolutely. That's not to say that they don't have a private encrypted line straight to the mega datacenter the NSA (CIA?) just set up in Utah, who knows what happens to that copy of the data.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Interesting)
Absolutely! I am not active on Facebook. I talked to a brother in Chicago and a friend in Louisiana. I have never logged into Facebook from an ip address that would geo locate me to my home state. Mobile ip, proxies or tor (or combinations of the three). And always from a Linux live cd, so no cookies from anywhere else.
Social media is blocked at my home and work, I can't accidentally login. Nothing in my login history says I live where I do. It says the opposite. Yes, I have an overly paranoid account.
One day I turned off my ad blocking software and found quite a few personalized ads for my location, and it confused me quite a bit. How? When i did that a year before, Facebook thought I lived across the country and frequently traveled.
My best explanation is that I gave the friend in LA my phone number (in person) and when she added it to her contact book, a Facebook sync confirmed my number as matching me. She possibly added my real birthdate and more.I put that data into any form and it now matches that account. So although I have never given Facebook any more useful data than my (very common) name, they now have enough info to match me on anything in real databases.
As someone who has tried their hardest to fudge databases with false info, there is no use. They will get the data some other way and then fill in the rest. As it has been mentioned before, even if you don't have an account you will have a ghost profile in the database if your name is in someone else's contact book. A fake name does nothing if 20 of your friends or relatives list you as your real name in their contact books and they sync.
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I'd imagine that's a false assumption and most it is very real. Remember they're data mining, not sampling.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Funny)
$ cat
[...]
127.0.0.30 outbrain.com
127.0.0.30 facebook.com
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HOSTS is an awesome method for blocking sites like Facebook, shame it doesn't handle wildcarded domains last time I checked.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Informative)
Not its not an awesome method.
You're right it does not support wildcards so putting www.facebook.com in there does nothing top stop, the java script on every other site out there from posting to trackyourass.facebook.com
I makes things point to a resource that won't answer so unless you take additional steps like running a httpd that will generate a 404, so it can make things dirt slow.
Lots of pages are designed (badly) and need images to exist or the layout breaks, or is messed up otherwise.
So no your hosts file is not an awesome method. A proxy like privoxy for example though there are other good ones starts to come closer to something that might be a decent solution. It could at least serve dummy images, use regular expressions to strip posts, and gets inside iframes to .*facebook.(com|net); .*fbcdn.com and others. etc.
Really people STOP using your hosts file. Its like the worst possible answer.
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Re:Yeah, right (Score:4)
Don't forget facebook.net and fb.net! (probably fb.com too).
Not to mention anything that goes through EC2 or akamai.
(not so perfect a solution these days, is my point)
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Huh? You don't filter that crap? I filter out all that FB and +1 crap.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Funny)
Not me because I don't want to be put on a list of "hiding something because they don't use facebook like everyone else." Instead I have a script that finds the most common likes that average people click and it automatically likes them by me as well. My profile fits pretty much right in the middle.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Funny)
I'm not even on facebook!
And I'm scr****ed.
scrAMBLed?!?
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Funny)
I'm not even on facebook!
And I'm scr****ed.
scrAMBLed?!?
scrOTUMed.
Re: Yeah, right (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Informative)
Exactly.
My use of facebook is as follows:
Register account, to keep someone else from using my name (it happens, I've had internet stalkers for over a decade that have done things like register domains, show up at my door, etc).
Disable everything that it's possible to disable. Set to notify me by email of private messages, just in case. Disable ability to tag me in photos, post on my wall, etc, etc.
Put up a user photo on account that says "I DO NOT USE FB. SEND ME AN EMAIL AT >email addy".
Never touch Facebook again.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Interesting)
Exactly.
My use of facebook is as follows:
Register account, to keep someone else from using my name (it happens, I've had internet stalkers for over a decade that have done things like register domains, show up at my door, etc).
Disable everything that it's possible to disable. Set to notify me by email of private messages, just in case. Disable ability to tag me in photos, post on my wall, etc, etc.
Put up a user photo on account that says "I DO NOT USE FB. SEND ME AN EMAIL AT >email addy".
Never touch Facebook again.
How does this keep your mythical decade long stalkers from setting up a Facebook profile with your name? My name is not all that common, but there are dozens of people on Facebook with my name -- including 1 in the same town as me.
If you never touch Facebook again, how will you know about your stalkers profile? And what would he do with this fake profile anyway?
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Exactly.
My use of facebook is as follows:
Register account, to keep someone else from using my name (it happens, I've had internet stalkers for over a decade that have done things like register domains, show up at my door, etc).
Disable everything that it's possible to disable. Set to notify me by email of private messages, just in case. Disable ability to tag me in photos, post on my wall, etc, etc.
Put up a user photo on account that says "I DO NOT USE FB. SEND ME AN EMAIL AT >email addy".
Never touch Facebook again.
If you never touch Facebook again, you're in trouble. You see, they keep changing their privacy controls, and make everything opt-out by default (meaning when they change the controls, the privacy-detrimental "features" are enabled by default). As a result, unless you check in regularly and verify your privacy settings, you might be surprised at what is enabled right now (even if you disabled it in the past).
I just avoid facebook by having someone else with my name on there -- I can claim that anything on
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Exactly.
My use of facebook is as follows:
Register account, to keep someone else from using my name (it happens, I've had internet stalkers for over a decade that have done things like register domains, show up at my door, etc).
Disable everything that it's possible to disable. Set to notify me by email of private messages, just in case. Disable ability to tag me in photos, post on my wall, etc, etc.
Put up a user photo on account that says "I DO NOT USE FB. SEND ME AN EMAIL AT >email addy".
Never touch Facebook again.
So, if I understand this correctly, you think that by registering a Facebook account in your name, no one else can register a different Facebook account in the same name? Did you miss the part where Facebook user names aren't unique? There are a couple of hundred Facebook accounts with exactly the same name as mine.
Grats on failing at the most elaborate yet pointless Facebook paranoia scheme I've seen yet.
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Register account, to keep someone else from using my name (it happens, I've had internet stalkers for over a decade that have done things like register domains, show up at my door, etc).
Your precaution seems wise, although possibly not sufficient. This kind of facebook impersonation happened to my father-in-law last week. And he has a facebook account that he uses regularly. Even so, an impostor created a look-alike account and asked his friends for money. I'm not quite clear on how the scam was uncovered, either my father-in-law noticed something or one of his friends thought it odd that there were two of him. I didn't ask for clarification since I heard about this while walking through
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But then Facebook couldn't collect information about unregistered users!
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Interesting)
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...and the more and more facebook doesn't care as they know everything about you through inference from others you know anyway.
So? (Score:3)
The anonymous ship sailed a long time ago for pretty much anybody who has ever done anything public under their own name. I could be easily googled well before FB came along. That doesn't particularly bother me; I don't have any mortal enemies that I'm hiding from, and I'd like any old friends to be able to find me if they want to do so. The rules haven't changed: if you really want to be private for some reason, don't do anything public (and anything on the internet is public) under your real name--for tha
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More to the point, privacy is an illusion we create to hide us from ourselves. If you really want "privacy" then go hide in a cave all by yourself. If you want to keep secrets, don't tell anyone else. The moment you tell someone something you've lost control of that information. The internet just makes it easier to lose control of information.
Re:So? (Score:5, Interesting)
Try using your small business account to order up a Choicepoint profile of one Richard Cheney and see how far that theory takes you. If privacy is such an unimportant illusion why does every high-ranking corporate and government official have access to their records not only blocked but set up for immediate counterattack on access?
sPh
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No, you kissed your privacy goodbye when you started interacting with others.
Your friends all submitted their email accounts so that facebook could mine them for friends. You are connected to all your friends' accounts on facebook (though not visibly to the outside), and they can mine your address for associations and know to a great degree who you are, what you like, etc - because they know who your friends are and what they like.
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No, you kissed your privacy goodbye when you started interacting with others.
And by you mean being born.
Be it from Experian, Equifax, TransUnion, and or Innovis. From something like LexisNexis or another background check type company. Or say even your past employers who have HR files on you. There are collections of data about you out there and often it is indeed for sale.
Here is the thing. While there has been a successful effort to deregulate everything and anything, and any attempts at trying to regulate anything is met by fierce and well funded oppression, by in large the th
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The funny thing is it doesn't document anything you don't let it. One can argue that the privacy settings should be adjusted by default to protect you... but you're getting a free account on a social network, what do you expect, a parade in your honor & some $?
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
The funny thing is it doesn't document anything you don't let it. One can argue that the privacy settings should be adjusted by default to protect you... but you're getting a free account on a social network, what do you expect, a parade in your honor & some $?
Nope, I'd expect to pay for the "free" account with my private information. This is why I don't use Facebook, and is also gp's point. Just because they're bartering for your information rather than charging you dollars does not mean it's free.
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Unless you mysteriously don't give it to them. So... just because it's the internet, does that mean common sense goes out the door... for everybody? Mind buying me a boat while we're on the internet? There can't possibly be any real world repercussions!
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Unless you mysteriously don't give it to them. So... just because it's the internet, does that mean common sense goes out the door... for everybody?
I don't think it's true for literally everybody, but I'd bet it does for "most" people.
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No, that's not a funny thing. It documents everything. The privacy settings control the flow of information from you to other people, it doesn't control what facebook sees, collects, and uses*.
Theoreticaly some settings do specifically address what Facebook does with your info, but I don't trust them to not do it. Plus, there isn't a way to tell facebook to not use your information in a way they haven't created a privacy setting for. There really good at asking for forgiveness, rather than permission to do
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Not specific to your post, but a slight rant based on all posts:
Facebook doesn't click the like button for you, nor does it ask you to talk about your ED in post, so that it can try to sell you viagra. That's all people's doings, facebook is just the harvester of people's stupidity and over-sharing. And ya, they do have a nasty habit of turning stuff on and implementing new features with privacy concerns... but again they can't share what you don't give them.
Also, I'm slightly confused as to what exactly
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How is it "stomping on your privacy" to share data you have agreed to share? If people are naive enough to believe Facebook was setup solely for peoples' enjoyment, that's their own damn fault. If you share things online you're uncomfortable with other people knowing about that's your own problem. Expecting Facebook to make your privacy their business is silly.
To play the other devil's advocate... it's "stomping on your privacy" because most countries have privacy laws, and citizens expect Facebook to honor them.
OK: enough of the devil. It all comes down to the Insurance paradigm.
There are two types of insurance: comprehensive and named-damages. When using Facebook, most people assume they have comprehensive privacy protection -- meaning that their privacy is protected except in the ways they explicitly allow Facebook to use it. However, Facebook operates on a
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This is so stupid. I use Facebook weekly, to keep in touch with a few relatives and real-life friends.
I've never used the "Share" function; it never made any sense to me. If I want to include a link in a post, I paste it.
I've certainly never done what TFA talks about; sharing something inappropriate then changing my mind and deleting it.
I really don't know what invasions of privacy I'm supposed to fear here.
Go back and re-read TFA.
If changing your mind and deleting something you posted is all you got out of the article you have TOTALLY missed the point.
Garbage in, garbage out (Score:5, Funny)
I have been peppering my FB check-ins with places that I have been to, noting events that never took place, mixed in with real check-ins. I have set my "Lives in" city to somewhere different every day this year. Unless you know me, good luck figuring out what on my FB page is real and what isn't.
Re:Garbage in, garbage out (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Garbage in, garbage out (Score:5, Funny)
Sounds like you have a lot of free time on your hands. Like most Facebook users.
Re:Garbage in, garbage out (Score:5, Informative)
I have been peppering my FB check-ins with places that I have been to, noting events that never took place, mixed in with real check-ins. I have set my "Lives in" city to somewhere different every day this year. Unless you know me, good luck figuring out what on my FB page is real and what isn't.
The thing about Graph search, is your friends know you, and they, (presumably), are not engaged in such useless attempts at deception. So regardless of what YOU say or do, Facebook will not be fooled. They will know exactly who you are and where you are, just by mining your friends, your IP address, etc. (I mean, seriously, you can't have imagined this would really work, did you)?
Even if you never signed up for facebook, you are likely already in their database.
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Facebook don't care. This graph search has already inferred and create a profile with most all the important information about you. And by not signing up you have let them just decide it was all true without your influence.
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he could route it through tor then their ip records would be less than useless
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I'd be shocked if you could log into Facebook through Tor, it's being treated as the Internet's leper colony these days, half the sites out there blacklist all exit node IPs.
So what (Score:2)
Re:So what (Score:4, Informative)
I don't think its their own posts most folks are worried about, or object to Facebook using,referencing,indexing etc.
All but the dumbest among us (seems there are lots of really dumb folks though) know not to put anything on Facebook we'd be upset about someone reprinting on a billboard next to the interstate with attribution.
The issue is really all the other photos people post and tag, the fact they can tag you when you don't even have an account. The fact that they are using facial recognition and what really are some pretty smart algorithms to know when someone mentions John Smith, just exactly which one they are talking about. Coupled with the location information attached to much of these things as meta data Facebook likely has a better idea of where you are at this very moment than many of our intelligence agency do and probably could figure it out faster too. That is what people have problems with.
Now this search feature is going to make the last part more and more available to well anyone who happens to be interested and is willing to endure viewing an ad for "attractive singles in their area".
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I also really couldn't care less. Thanks to the news media, people are way too paranoid about their personal information. If you don't go around giving out your SSN or bank account numbers, what difference does it make? I suppose if you're posting semi-nude pictures of yourself acting like a fool then you may want to reconsider what kinds of things you put on FB.
Do not enter your real name on a social network. (Score:5, Informative)
Do not enter your real name on a social network, use a Psuedonym, call yourself something else like you would on IRC, AIM, YIM, etc. Only friend people who you know on their Psuedonym. People. Quit. Putting. Your. Real. Name. On. Accounts.
Re:Do not enter your real name on a social network (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes people let us live in fear. Fear the bogeyman. Hide your truth. Isn't it obvious this is the path to a brighter future.
Interestingly enough, I just did a global birth certificate search, and besides not finding one for a "Barrack Obama" in the US or any protectorate or territory thereof (which we all knew anyway), I did find one listing an official name of "Jmc23". Just "Jmc23". Parents listed as "Run Dmc" and "J-Lo".
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OR
living in a dystopian FB/"We know what you think before you think it" future?
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That defeats one of the most attractive features/purposes of Facebook ... the ability to locate (or be located) by old friends and connections you knew from school, previous jobs, etc.
Don't forget, Facebook basically sprung up from the ashes of the old pay sites like Classmates.com. People were eager enough to locate each other using a site like this, they used to pay good money for memberships. Then Facebook came along and said they'd do the same thing at no cost.
If you really don't want people to know any
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There are people, and friends of mine who use Facebook as their only means of Contact.
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time to declare war? (Score:5, Insightful)
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If a foreign government agency had spent years gathering data, and was mining it for undisclosed (possibly nefarious) purposes, It would be known as a dangerous spy network, would be subjected to infiltration/corruption and possible attack.
Doesn't every government have an agency that does that?
What makes you think governments haven't infiltrated Facebook?
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If a foreign government agency had spent years gathering data, and was mining it for undisclosed (possibly nefarious) purposes, It would be known as a dangerous spy network, would be subjected to infiltration/corruption and possible attack.
Yes, because foreign government spy networks consist of putting up a webpage and saying "Hey, everyone, send us stuff you don't want people to know".
Because..... (Score:5, Insightful)
People who post pictures of themself drunk, passed out pants round their ankles in the street are concerned with privacy.
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People who post pictures of themself drunk, passed out pants round their ankles in the street are concerned with privacy.
Report: Every Potential 2040 President Already Unelectable Due To Facebook [theonion.com]
You do not have a Facebook Page (Score:4)
I wrote this a while ago but I will continue to post it as long as stupid people exist: You Do Not Have A Facebook Page! [sandfly.net.nz]. Facebook has a page on you.
I signed up to Facebook and occasionally update Facebook's page on me, I find the service quite useful for keeping in touch with people, but I am under no illusions as to why Facebook provides this service. Anyone who uses Facebook with anything they expect to keep private has seriously misunderstood their relationship with the company.
Don't use your real information, unless... (Score:2)
There is only one time when you use real information: when you're paying for a service and it has a vested interest in keeping your information off the open internet.
Otherwise, it's time to fill in the B.S. Think of your best friend as a child, and a common object around the house. Those terms are your first name and last respectively.
- Dave Paperweight
Yawn. (Score:2)
0.0.0.0 graph.facebook.com
Or, just run Ghostery, which scrubs the whole lot of 'em. Anyone browsing the modern internet without at least an adblocker and a tracker/analytics blocker pretty much deserve what they get.
Why Should I Care? (Score:2)
People just don't understand how info propagates (Score:2)
At first, I thought FaceBook users were a bunch of popularity whores looking for scores of friends and their own reality TV fix. Now, I simply think users just don't make the connection to a bunch of online connections and how quickly and easily their activity propagates to each other.
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Think about how many times some moron has shared information about a crime they committed on Facebook. I think they care, but they don't understand how quickly information spreads.
The real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
everyone in the US will essentially be forced to have a Social Network account to be able to function in modern society.
More and more I see all manner of business and government entities handing responsibility over to FB for all sorts of things. It's actually quite disgusting, but not surprising given the (d)evolution of our database driven society. A centralized system of user accounts that almost everything done digitally can use?
When I first saw the subtle changes taking place with FB, things like not being able to contact my local PBS television station unless I used FB , or not being able to enter a contest to see one of my favorite bands unless I used FB I knew it would be only a matter of time until everyone will be forced to have an account.
Currently I don't have one, and never have. However I am part of a group that has an account, and my name and image are located there, so I'm "in the system" as it were.
Once everyone is forced to have an account, then the next step will be for society in general to force those with accounts to update those accounts. There will come a time when via our smartphones those accounts will be updated automatically.
It's almost at that point now:
Who you've talked to.
What you said.
Where you went.
What you bought.
What you listened to.
What you read.
What you think.
Disgusting, reprehensible, wrong
100 posts and nobody asked... (Score:2)
Is everyone really 6 degrees from Kevin Bacon?
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Be sure and spend lots of time posting something insightful since all this whole submission is meant to do is generate hits from search engines!
Re:I actually doubt FB can tell who I am. (Score:5, Informative)
Too bad. They know exactly who you really are, and your current, (and probably all past) addresses. Your spouse and family log in from the same public facing IP addresses, you all visit the same restaurants together with your portable devices. Your friends have your pictures, and facial recognition will peg you.
You are fooling no one but yourself.
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Re:I actually doubt FB can tell who I am. (Score:4, Informative)
http://panopticlick.eff.org/
This will show you that logged in FB or not, your browser signs your unique presence for you. No really, you don't even need to have an account on FB to be known by FB. Now add the data collected by other sites and I'm quite sure that FB could automatically fill in your first name field and last name field for you during the account creation.
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Interesting link, thanks.
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Why does it have your cell number? I certainly wouldn't put mine on there...
I think it nags you for your number "in case you forget your password" or something like that.
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And if you're using anything resembling a standard browser for Facebook and other things, they know everywhere you go on the web...and associate it with your real name.
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Re:What does FaceBook have? (Score:4, Informative)
I believe that by "standard browser" he means any browser which does any of the following:
- Javascript
- Cookies
- Flash
If your browser does any of those, you are being tracked every time you open it. You don't even need a facebook account and you don't need to use google. If you wish to stop being tracked, you will have the install at least the following extensions for your browser:
- NoScript (for malicious javascript)
- Ghostery (for cross-site tracking)
- CS lite (for flexible cookie management)
- BetterPrivacy (for Flash-based cookies)
- AdBlockPlus (for more tracking)
- https anywhere (for man-in-the-middle snooping)
- FireGloves (for browser fingerprinting)
and configure all of them to only use a whitelist, and explicitly disable Facebook, Google, Twitter and anything similar. Then you'll need to restart your browser at regular intervals to deter session cookies. You'll also need to reconnect to your ISP regularly to thwart IP-based tracking.
Yes, there used to be a time when using the web was easy. Now Facebook and Google have turned it into THIS.
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but I challenge anyone to think of a single instance of "privacy" that isn't also "dishonest" if you assume that withholding the truth is also being dishonest.
I challenge anyone who can think of a single instance of when the sun didn't come up in the west, assuming that "west" means "the direction the sun comes up in".
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9/10... Well played, sir!
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That isn't to say that all dishonesty is necessarily negative, but I challenge anyone to think of a single instance of "privacy" that isn't also "dishonest" if you assume that withholding the truth is also being dishonest.
Why would I ever accept such an idiotic assumption.
By your line of reasoning wearing underwear counts as "dishonest". Having your blinds closed is "dishonest". Peeing behind the bush instead of in front of it where i can see you is "dishonest". Keeping your bank PIN code a secret is "disho
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privacy = dishonesty
Am I being dishonest because I don't tell my future employers exactly what I did with my girlfriend last night? Because really, the only people that need to know about that are me and her.
Am I being dishonest because I don't tell the NSA exactly which completely legal political gatherings I'm attending? Because I should be able to do that without the NSA caring about it.
I could go on, but I think you get the point.