Apple Reportedly Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs 334
TechCrunch reports that Apple, facing a substantial backlash (and some snarky competitive advertising) over goofs in the mapping software included in iOS 6, is going after the problem with a hiring spree. Here's TechCrunch's lead:
"Apple is going after people with experience working on Google Maps to develop its own product, according to a source with connections on both teams. Using recruiters, Apple is pursuing a strategy of luring away Google Maps employees who helped develop the search giant’s product on contract, and many of those individuals seem eager to accept due in part to the opportunity Apple represents to build new product, instead of just doing 'tedious updates' on a largely complete platform."
Meanwhile, writes reader EGSonikku "Well known iOS hacker Ryan Perrich has gotten the iOS5 Google Maps application to run on iOS6 using 'a little trickery.' (YouTube demonstration.) He has not released it yet due to crashing issues but states 'it mostly works.'"
Hiring ex google employees? (Score:5, Funny)
That's innovative ...
Smart Move (Score:5, Funny)
At least with Google employees, Apple won't need to email them a pdf map of their office location.
iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't use Apple products, so maybe this isn't as surprising to others as it is to me, but why the fuck can't an app that ran fine on iOS 5 also run fine on iOS 6? Why is "a little trickery" needed, and even then there are still issues?
Furthermore, wasn't iOS 5 only released to the public in October of 2011? I mean, that wasn't even a single year ago! Is smartphone and tablet crap shat out so rapidly that backward compatibility can't be retained even after only 11 months?
How is it that Microsoft, who aren't exactly known for creating the most robust software, can maintain backward compatibility with operating systems released decades ago, but Apple (also a very well-funded company, with access to basically any talent they need) can't even manage to retain compatibility with a system released not even a year ago?
Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (Score:5, Informative)
Maps is a core OS app, like Safari or Mail, and as such it gets used by other applications. It only gets updated when the OS gets updated.
Google reportedly has plans to release their own Maps application. This seems to be more about licensing then about compatibility. It's entirely possible this wasn't solely Apple's doing, but very well could've been due to Google's.
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Apple has been suing the fuck out of the Android ecosystem.
Hopefully Google did give them the boot but i doubt it.
Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't use Apple products, so maybe this isn't as surprising to others as it is to me, but why the fuck can't an app that ran fine on iOS 5 also run fine on iOS 6? Why is "a little trickery" needed, and even then there are still issues?
Furthermore, wasn't iOS 5 only released to the public in October of 2011? I mean, that wasn't even a single year ago! Is smartphone and tablet crap shat out so rapidly that backward compatibility can't be retained even after only 11 months?
How is it that Microsoft, who aren't exactly known for creating the most robust software, can maintain backward compatibility with operating systems released decades ago, but Apple (also a very well-funded company, with access to basically any talent they need) can't even manage to retain compatibility with a system released not even a year ago?
this has nothing to do with backward compatibility, this is a solid case of "I don't want to pay you for features that my customers need, and I can't provide decent replacement, but my users will buy my stuff anyway, so why bother"
Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
this has nothing to do with backward compatibility, this is a solid case of "I don't want to pay you for features that my customers need, and I can't provide decent replacement, but my users will buy my stuff anyway, so why bother"
No, it has to do with Google putting restrictions on the use of map data, including not allowing turn-by-turn navigation. Apple knew that it couldn't have a core feature of its product permanently beholden to a competitor and the restrictions it might impose down the line. So, realizing that bringing maps in-house would not get any easier down the line, it decided to rip off the band-aid now. Every other smartphone platform has done the same. Microsoft uses its own maps. Nokia owns Navteq and Google we all know about.
Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
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That would've locked them out of turn-by-turn for another five years.
Do Google have monopoly on map data? My HTC Desire Z has map and turn by turn navigation by TomTom that works out of the box
Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
That would've locked them out of turn-by-turn for another five years.
Do Google have monopoly on map data? My HTC Desire Z has map and turn by turn navigation by TomTom that works out of the box
Funny, so does iOS 6 (Have TomTom data that is) and apparently it sucks.
TomTom has been in the mapping business since 1991, and their data and products has been used by hundreds of hundreds of their customer. I think, perhaps the data is not the source the problem, but Apple just did a lousy job implementing them
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Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
What I meant is that if that is really the case Apple should have taken the necessary time or invested the necessary amount of resources to have a good alternative solution. I highly doubt that Google's terms were anywhere as bad as you describe, though. Google has a long history of allowing other to license the use of its technologies, unlike Apple.
I think that Apple has long adhered to the Agile Software Development concept of committing 'just enough' development resources to a product to implement 'just enough' features to make that product a viable choice for people to buy. You can see this in earlier releases of the iPhone OS where they left out a long list of features like 'copy/paste', 'mark mail as read' and a whole lot of other small and small-ish features who then crept into later releases. People voted with their wallets and bought their iPhones anyway because the feature set was still complete enough to make the devices interesting. This time Apple simply underestimated what 'just enough' is when it comes to mapping applications. Apple also seriously underestimated just how much people use maps on their smart-phones. I think Apple's mad scramble to hire people with cartographic experience makes this obvious. Unfortunately for them Apple will not be able to catch up with Google Maps unless they shell out a significant proportion of their vast cash reserve, which I hope they do since I applaud any serous competition Google gets.
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Not "why bother", rather "let's go on a hiring spree". You got the first 3/4 right. But this post kinda talks about the hiring spree-let's bother part.
Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (Score:4, Informative)
Why is "a little trickery" needed
Because the old app has to be extracted from the iOS 5 disk image first and then copied onto iOS 6. That's not supported officially and therefore requires some trickery.
Android is no different if you try to get Google apps on a phone without "Google Experience" certification.
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Thing is, Android is for hackers.
No, it's not.
I thought Apple's slogan was "It just works"?
Apple has no slogan. Don't know where you got that idea.
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I'm only relatively new to iOS development, so I could be speaking out my ass, but it's probably because the iOS5 Maps app was using the MapKit.framework library just like every other maps-capable app on the device.
Because Apple has replaced the iOS5 Map Kit library with their own (our app, for example, now uses the ugly Apple maps with no changes from us) I suspect Ryan Perrich has not only had to extract the old Maps app from an iOS5 image but also the MapKit.framework library and then package them togeth
the new HQ looks like an asshole from space, too (Score:5, Funny)
Apple to Customer: "You know that mapping app everybody uses? The one that's practically the most popular iOS app? The one that works so well? You can't use that any more."
Customer: "Why not?"
Apple to Customer: "Fuck you, that's why not. Now get back in line. And by the way, did you know that you prefer the walled garden because it provides a more seamless end-user experience? Now repeat that after me: "I prefer the walled garden because...""
Re:iOS 5 apps can't easily run on iOS 6? Huh? (Score:4, Informative)
They can. Apple do actually put a lot of effort into forwards compatibility, this is the reason behind some of the much maligned App Store rules.
The factor you are missing is that Maps is not a normal third-party app. It's an app that is distributed as part of iOS. Apple had a five year license from Google to do so. That five years is up, and Apple no longer have a license to distribute this app. There's no technical incompatibility, it's a legal issue.
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The Maps app is a core app built into the system (and thus only gets updated with OS updates), and since its introduction with the original iPhone five years ago, it's been using data that was licensed from Google (at the time, that was a big deal, but now it seems like nothing at all). Apple and Google had struck a five year contract which expired with iOS 5 for both the Maps app and for YouTube (also a core app of the system). As such, when the contract was up, there was apparently a mutual choice to go i
Not really a news story (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not really a news story (Score:5, Insightful)
it makes completely sense to try and lure away experienced professionals away from another company on a similar project.
The story is that a company known for boasting about its innovation prowess and suing the rest of the industry over imitation is doing this.
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it makes completely sense to try and lure away experienced professionals away from another company on a similar project.
The story is that a company known for boasting about its innovation prowess and suing the rest of the industry over imitation is doing this.
Well where do you think new ideas come from?
Do you think they take "regular" people and plant them in the ground, water them with miracle grow or something? So if they didn't grow in Apple soil, it doesn't count?
Really, I'm trying to figure out the logic behind this, like how a company known to boast of its innovation is expected to grow talented employees on trees.
Apple is not THAT good, you are really showing your insecurities.
Re:Not really a news story (Score:4, Insightful)
...it achieves this innovation by having the best people. Again, why is this news?
Because it is abundantly apparent that Apple's intention in this case is to copy Google, and not even by original development. That's the news. The company boasting about innovation and complaining about copying, is itself planning to blatantly copy and skip the pesky innovation. See?
Look, I know it's inconvenient for Apple that independent news reporting beyond its control actually exists but that's the way the world works. Fortunately for the rest of us.
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I don't really see how this is a news story. I mean it makes completely sense to try and lure away experienced professionals away from another company on a similar project.
It's only news, because it's a rare event when corporations actually follow the law [redorbit.com] -- instead of just paying lip service to it.
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Particularly when said employees worked on a successful mapping project and the pathetic half wits on your project deserved to be dropped out of a tenth storey window.
Re:Not really a news story (Score:5, Informative)
Non-Compete Agreements are intended to protect trade secrets from being shared with a third party while the content of them would be reasonably considered still valid.
If Apple were attempting to attract current, full-time employees than the Non-Compete argument still applies as long as it's content reasonably enables them to continue to seek gainful employment to which they are qualified.
Re:Not really a news story (Score:5, Informative)
Of course it does, which is why most companies make you sign non-compete agreements when they hire you. I'm not sure of California's rules on non-competes
At least as of 2008, they had no legal standing, with some narrow exceptions [arstechnica.com] (Edwards v. Arthur Anderson LLP).
Re:Not really a news story (Score:4, Insightful)
ianal, but I was under the impression that calif was a right-to-work state. a company saying you can't work in your field, even if its just 1 other company (especially in this economy!) IS actually denying you your right to earn a living. suppose that was the only offer you could get? (I've been in the job market and this is not at all farfetched).
lots of bullshit is seen on calif employment contracts. it only matters if the company tries to sue you; and most of the time, they won't bother. the negative PR, should you fight back, would be a career limiter for folks IN the company who pushed you into this.
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Exactly this. I had signed a "non-compete" agreement with an employer, and I wanted to move. Not only did they officially void the non-compete, but they also told me that it was "essentially impossible to enforce" - particularly in a right-to-work state.
It was intended to intimidate. It failed.
Re:Not really a news story (Score:5, Funny)
ianal, but ...
I've found these sorts of posts much more amusing now that I mentally make the substitution "ianal" -> "I'm anal".
Re:Not really a news story (Score:5, Funny)
In case of Apple stories, shouldn't it rather be iAnal?
This. (Score:4, Funny)
It's not like they don't need help [tumblr.com]...
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Can we just post this link in the blurb on every Apple story so that we don't need to waste mod points on all the karmawhores?
Re:This. (Score:5, Insightful)
I see this kind of comparison a lot, so I'll help you understand how it works: Apple bashing gets modded up because of patent lawsuits, high prices, abused workers at third-world manufacturing plants, common or old features being touted as crazy innovations and all of the above combined with gigantic lines for their products, which implies their typical customer's perceived affinity with technology. Google bashing, on the other hand, is often modded down because it happens mostly on comments pertaining to Apple stories. Which means they are probably flamebait and certainly offtopic, thus the rightful moderation. Your example fits nicely. On the other hand, on stories about either Google, privacy concerns or driverless cars, Google bashing is often modded up, so if that's what you fell like doing, lurk for a while and select your stories with more care in the future.
On a related note, X fans will always think that X's competitor Y is being given an unfair advantage, so a wiser approach would be to just let it go.
Re:This. (Score:5, Interesting)
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What you don't realise is that Apple is averse to having their stuff copied, and a cartographer's trick is to "make shit up" to put in their map, so that when it's copied, they can tell and sue for infringement: the supposed crappiness of Apple's OS6 maps is actually a form of copy protection.
Well, either that or they decided the best way to make sure nobody copied their maps app was to make sure nobody would ever want to.
Re:This. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not like they don't need help [tumblr.com]...
Actually, a good chunk of those funny blunders falls into the third of these categories of problems with Apple's iOS 6 Maps:
The first category includes things like directions for public transportation, pedestrians, and bike trails, as well a more robust search system, but it doesn't produce funny errors, they don't get pointed out very often.
The second category makes a good chunk of the hilarity, but it's something that Apple will (slowly) correct as they refine their databases. Google has many years of headstart here, so it's no wonder their database is in much better shape.
The third category is the one that produces the most hilarious errors but... well, it turns out that it reflects artifacts in the renderings produced by the flyover feature, a feature that AFAIK is not really part of Google Maps, and thus the criticism is rather silly!
Yes, Google has similar flyovers in Google Earth, but that's a separate product. Furthermore, Google Earth is plagued by similar errors in rendering. Examples:
In Google Earth, go to this location in Houston: 29.713347 -95.382174, and follow the bayou (river) as it goes West and South-west towards the Texas Medical Center. See how all those bridges appear to sink to the level of the water? A similar example can be found in Philadelphia: 39.958905 -75.180871.
tl;dr My point is: The 3D rendering errors are funny but not exclusive to Apple. The inaccurate database is easy to fix, but will take time. The missing features are the real problem and we don't know if Apple even intends to add them.
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IMHO Apple is on a very self destructive course with
Re:And that... (Score:4, Informative)
Garmin do not own any maps. The only realistic alternative to Google and Tom Tom is Nokia, but they're competition too, so its easy to see why Apple went with Tom Tom.
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Well if that link is going to be every Apple story so is this one:
You're going to see to that are you?
Google maps were a far better experience in most ways, they shouldn't have replaced it with their own inferior service, they should have made sure it was at least on par. They appear to be copying Google's (and others') tactic of releasing 'beta' products into mainstream, something they never did before, it always used to be about only releasing something when they got it right and polished, that seems to be changing.
Re:That's the thing - it is not "very poor" (Score:4, Funny)
Google also sometimes cannot find things that I am pretty sure should be easy to find.
You're right. I've been looking for this place called Schadenfreude and I can't seem to find it anywhere. Is it on your Apple map?
Unfair (Score:2)
Unfair. Those litigious monsters at Apple are hiring guys away from Google. Google should sue them to protect their vital IP.
Also unfair: companies mutually agreeing not to poach each others' employees. And we don't believe in imaginary property.
I thought he died (Score:5, Funny)
Apple Reportedly Luring Ex-Google Mappers With Jobs
What did they do, prop him up and pull a string wrapped around his wrist to beckon them over?
Sorry. I need sleep. Or help.
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$85K is a lot of money? (Score:3)
The referenced article mentions:
The position sounds like a product development manager position, and will pay him $85k+ and all the moving expenses from the East Coast. He’s gone through 2 rounds of interview and seems like a frontrunner to land that position.
Is $85K a lot of money for a product development manager? I know some IT Helpdesk staff that make nearly that much in Silicon Valley.
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This should come as no surprise, but salaries vary with location based largely on the cost-of-living. Silicon Valley and the Bay Area are some of the most expensive places to live in the US.
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Data (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple's problem is primarily with the data, not the actual mapping application. Considering how deep Apple's pockets are, I'm really surprised they weren't able to license a better / larger set of GIS data. There are number of competing mapping companies out there, so I have a hard time believing that, given enough money, one of them wouldn't have provided Apple with what they needed.
Now as for the actual application, I believe Apple's map application is superior to Google's in a number of ways. I've always preferred vector / real-time drawn maps over pre-rendered tiled raster maps (which is what Google's are).
So as for Google maps, why hasn't Google released a stand alone app yet? After all, that's all Google Maps are with Android is an app on the marketplace. Is Apple blocking Google, or is Google (perhaps wisely) letting Apple go it alone for a bit so people will miss the functionality Google provided, then they can step in and save the day (before Apple has a chance to improve their product enough)?
Re:Data (Score:5, Insightful)
I respectfully disagree that the primary problem is the data. Have you seen the comparisons of Apple's "virtual flyover" with Google's "street view"? Flyover looks nice for certain scenes, but others are full of bizarre Dali-esque digital artifacts and distortions.
Give me real photos from street level, any day.
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I respectfully disagree that the primary problem is the data. Have you seen the comparisons of Apple's "virtual flyover" with Google's "street view"? Flyover looks nice for certain scenes, but others are full of bizarre Dali-esque digital artifacts and distortions.
Give me real photos from street level, any day.
Yes, but at least in Europe Google has already stated that it won't update StreetView. Won't happen. People don't like companies driving along in front of their houses and snapping photos. It's over. I don't know where you live, but in my city Streetview is already getting stale.
I think the next level is drones flying over the landscape and doing something like flyover from 300 feet. Next level, please.
Re:Data (Score:4, Interesting)
A Google van drove past me about 2 weeks ago here in the UK, which last I checked is part of Europe.
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I respectfully disagree that the primary problem is the data. (...) Flyover looks nice for certain scenes, but others are full of bizarre Dali-esque digital artifacts and distortions.
And Flyover data is not data?
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I respectfully disagree that the primary problem is the data.
The complaints aren't so much about the pictures as the location data. Since upgrading to iOS6 I have been frustrated several times when stores I needed to look up simply weren't in Yelp's database. I wanted a store five miles from my house and its best suggestion was one 15 miles away. I don't care about the pictures; what I want is to know the best route through Houston to a place I have been previously but have never driven to from where I happen to be.
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Agreed, in the week I've been using it, I've found:
-My wife's Psychology practice has disappeared.
-One of the schoold where I work is spelled wrong and therefore can't be found
-The local hospital that moved over two years ago is still in the old location
-The local golf course has the wrong name
This is what I've found without even really LOOKING for mistakes. not to mention the general loss of detail.
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So as for Google maps, why hasn't Google released a stand alone app yet?
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-earth/id293622097 [apple.com]
Has been there since ages.
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That's the Google Earth app, not Google Maps. It doesn't provide directions or street view. From what I've seen it also doesn't do maps, instead it always uses satellite images.
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Apple's problem is primarily with the data, not the actual mapping application.
OpenStreetMap has better data in plenty of regions (there have been many examples of awful data in big European cities, which is where OSM is better than anything the commercial mappers provide), so I think there's more to it than simply data.
Now as for the actual application, I believe Apple's map application is superior to Google's in a number of ways. I've always preferred vector / real-time drawn maps over pre-rendered tiled raster maps (which is what Google's are).
Google's maps have been vector-based on Android since, apparently, 2010, and for a while on a WebGL browser too. http://www.techoncept.com/google-maps-android-app-now-has-amazing-vector-graphics-content-available-offline [techoncept.com]
Re:Data (Score:5, Informative)
Google has a maps app ready, and it's already submitted to Apple. The only thing holding it back is Apple approving it. So that may be next week, in a year (like they did with Google Voice [mashable.com]) or never (under the "duplicates a native service" rule).
Sources:
http://9to5mac.com/2012/09/20/google-has-an-ios-6-maps-app-awaiting-approval-it-is-solely-up-to-apple-to-approve/ [9to5mac.com]
http://mashable.com/2012/09/20/google-maps-ios-6-apple-approval-report/ [mashable.com]
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Time will tell if Google chooses to offer a maps app that's equivalent to their Android version, or if they choose to dumb it down for whatever reason (as has been the case with their Gmail app on iOS).
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Dalrymple, pretty much the definitive rumor confirmation/denier on all things Apple has given this one a "Nope".
http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/09/20/on-the-rumor-that-google-has-submitted-an-ios-6-maps-app-and-apple-is-sitting-on-it/
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I've always preferred vector / real-time drawn maps over pre-rendered tiled raster maps (which is what Google's are).
Google Maps (at least on Android) has used a combination of both approaches for a few years now. For an overview, you get bitmaps, but once you zoom in past some level, you get vector graphics. At least on less powerful devices, the change is quite apparent: for the former, you have to wait for the tiles to load, and for the latter, you have to wait for the map to render.
3D flyover can replace street view (Score:2)
The quality of the satellite images are atrocious
Only in some areas. In others they have higher resolution satellite images.
there's no street view equivalent
That's what 3D flyover mode is for. I prefer it to Steetview as you can see more of the area at once, the current problem is limited availability of cities that have 3D data (I have not seen an exact list anywhere yet) .
If this was any other company it would be considered an alpha release.
Having used it for a month or so I would say beta, not alpha.. i
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Well I'm happy it has its fans. For me Street view has proved very valuable on a number of occasions, and once Google has its map app for iOS6 I won't touch Apple's app again. I see no reason I should be a victim of their pathetic corporate wars. Maybe next phone won't be an iPhone at all if shitty apps pushes out just to fuck over competitors is the direction apple is going. Spent $700 for this phone and use google maps a lot, so fuck you Apple.
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"Apple's problem is primarily with the data, not the actual mapping application."
Yes and no. There does appear to be problems with the data (left/right geocoding attributes appear to be way, way off), but issues like having roads go through a lake or (my personal favorite) an airport having the topography of a small mountain range screams someone fucked up defining (or even taking into consideration) the geographic projections of each layer on Apple's end.
This "Apple's end" is still the data on Apple's servers, not the app itself.
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Perhaps because Apple is bullying Android producers, so Google decided that enough is enough.
That's why there's Google Earth for iOS since ages (and hasn't gone anywhere) and Google has just released its own YouTube app for iOS...
Honestly... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not an Apple fanboi but the rap Apple is getting about that maps app (and the data behind it) is just unreasonable. I'm totally happy with another big company trying to gear up here. Having only Google as a supplier of that would be just sad. What's wrong with competition? Let Apple try and top Google or at least get far enough to be as usable as Google maps is. And really, it's not as if Google had no screw-ups ever. Google for it (lol).
Sometimes I look at comments everywhere and it seems as if people would be totally happy to see nothing but Google and Android everywhere. Be careful what you wish for! Competition is good. Luring away employees is good. I love to be lured away from the job I'm doing. Give me a better job and a harder task to solve and I'm happy.
I'm sure that Apple going for a solution of its own will make even Google better. There's nothing good about the complacency of being a monopoly. Really. Grow some brain, guys.
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Apple releasing a map apps is completely fine. Making it not possible to use Google Maps, when in fact the Apple app sucks balls and the Google App is pretty awesome is what the problem is. Apple could at least have waited with blocking Google Maps until their own app wasn't so horrendous compared to the real thing.
It is possible to use Google maps (Score:3)
Go to maps.google.com in the Safari browser.
At this point it's not Apple's choice to be able to use the old map app - the license with Google is expiring so Apple cannot keep providing that app.
There's no reason to think Apple would block a Google written map app considering there are scores of other map applications in the App Store - including the Bing app [apple.com] (which includes Bing maps).
Re:Honestly... (Score:4, Informative)
Making it not possible to use Google Maps, when in fact the Apple app sucks balls and the Google App is pretty awesome is what the problem is.
Google Earth is on the App Store since ages: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-earth/id293622097 [apple.com]
You can go online and install it right now.
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Seems reasonable to me... Though I'm a longtime Android user, I have no problem with the idea of Apple trying to do their own thing and create a separate system. A little competition is good for everyone and all that. I know that Apple has a hard problem on their hands in creating a new mapping system - there's just an insane amount of data and tedious labor in creating really good global maps, and it takes years and many millions of dollars to get it right. But I'd still be pissed if I was an iPhone user w
Re:Honestly... (Score:5, Interesting)
If Apple and Microsoft PR departments only thought about all consequences of suing people around and behaving unethically in all cases where ethics remotely mattered
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God, going from Score:3 (default) to Score: 5, Insightful to Score: 3 within minutes REALLY seems as if people don't like reasonable comments.
Reminds me of getting a dozen thumbs down on The Register just for pointing out that the iPhone 4s was eating every other smartphone for lunch in GPU benchmarks along with a link to Anandtech proving it answering comments that that iPhone were tech of yesteryear (and I even don't own an iPhone 4s).
Re:Honestly... (Score:4, Insightful)
I understand what you're saying, but: Isn't this just business? Yeah, it may look childish now and then but do you really expect multi-billion companies fighting over multi-bilion markets not trying to get in the lever at every crack they see?
Personally I think even all these silly lawsuits are basically a symptom of civilisation. There're are lawyers making lots of money here, yes. But isn't this basically a good, civilized way of fighting and of money well spent? Better than going and killing people anyway. Better than almost everything that was common in the past. Better than any *real* war. No people are losing their limbs or being killed here. No widows, no orphans, no people being pushed around in wheelchairs. Just business and things to bicker about on Slashdot.
What's wrong about that? I love it. Give me more of that and more competition and more lawsuits. And less war and money spent on weapons instead. The day that wars will be fought and won or lost in a court will be the victory of civilisation. Give me more that and more different smartphones and tablets and map apps and whatever.
Great! (Score:2, Interesting)
Finally, Apple and Google are now poaching each other's employees/contractors. Remember this story [redorbit.com].
Perhaps now, this will force Google to offer permanent positions and better salaries to some of its better contract programmers. Also now that Apple is going after Google's employees, Apple can't really complain if Google makes a targeted effort to hire away some of Apple's top designers.
Re:Great! (Score:4, Informative)
Perhaps now, this will force Google to offer permanent positions and better salaries to some of its better contract programmers.
Huh? Google has no contract programmers to speak of. I hesitate to say the number is zero, because there's probably some obscure corner of the company that has one or two tucked away, but as far as I can see, zero is what it is (excluding interns -- many of whom become regular employees after graduation).
Google uses a lot of contractors for facilities, food services, recruiters and other supporting positions, but SWEs (Software Engineers) and SETs (Software Engineers in Test), are basically all regular employees, as are the vast majority of SREs (Site Reliability Engineers... basically Google's sysadmins).
Honestly, given the complexity and uniqueness of Google's infrastructure, it wouldn't make any sense for Google to hire contract programmers. It's pretty widely accepted internally that it takes a full year for a new Google engineer to become productive because of all of the technologies he or she needs to learn (this is also the reason Google interviews don't ask you about what tools/frameworks you've used in the past -- whatever it is, Google has built its own anyway so your knowledge is irrelevant). Since the company has to basically invest a full year up front, there's little value in hiring people for periods of time less than 2-3 years, but you can't hire a contractor for that long without the IRS viewing them as an employee anyway.
(I'm a SWE at Google.)
Whatever happened to, "It just works?" (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought Apple never did wrong because every pundit was detailing its so called, "attention to detail...". So what happened?
One did not need elementary school education to realise that its maps iteration was not just crazy, but it was just bizzare, showed incompetence and was taken as a reckless joke by many of us.
So again, what hapened to, "It just works?"
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
and has a cleaner view on maps.
Yes, displaying less information often has that effect.
Reduction of information is hard and important (Score:2)
Yes, displaying less information often has that effect.
Of course it does. But it then does not mean the data is not there; you just need to zoom in more.
What Apple is trying to do is more advanced than Google maps, where they just dump everything on a screen that can possibly fit and call it good. Apple is trying to map maps more readable and therefore usable for someone like a person in a car. So they are currently tweaking algorithms to decide just what is important to present in a view in such a way y
Re: (Score:2)
As an OSM contributor myself, I agree that a few misplaced points of interest are not so incredibly bad as internet trolls say it is. Sure it's not great but as long as there is a committed team working on the data, the kinks will be sorted out rather quickly. Apple should've stayed with OSM data for countries with good OSM coverage instead of licensing (broken?) data from TomTom.
What you are wrong about, though, is the claim that Apple Maps is the first with 3D maps. Google Maps has a very similar feature
Re:What Happened (Score:5, Informative)
Search is completely broken. Completely.
I use map search a couple times a day. I've been using Apple maps for a month, including a drive from New Jersey to Los Angeles. It has only failed to find what I was looking for a few times over that period, for me on par with Google (which sometimes cannot find things that should be easy). Google has decided what I want is really in China on more than one occasion... so I would not say Apple search is totally broken. It seems some areas are worse than others.
I wonder how many of the items not being found in Apple maps are people not typing in very specific search terms. That's where Apple really needs to improve, is on search term parsing. Although even there some general terms like "food" seem to work just fine.
You are reporting the map errors you see right? That's the only way things get better, and if Apple gets a lot of reports from a region perhaps they can figure out why their dataset is so out of whack for that location.
What is legitimate? (Score:3)
"Legitimate criticism = trolling"
Errors where it's not finding something it should are or course legitimate.
But many of the supposed map flaws I have seen are NOT legitimate. At least half of the supposed "errors" on the Apple map fail sites are people not understanding that Apple Maps renders differently, or not understanding a 2D projection onto 3D terrain because they have not seen it.
One big example is Apple maps supposedly not having some data at a location, when in fact the data is there - just at a
IP (Score:2)
Meanwhile Google is furiously patenting everything about Google Maps that they possibly can.
Re: (Score:2)
New people needed? (Score:3)
My current job said it best: "What we need is not new *people*; we need new *ideas*.
Wouldn't you know it, they are willing to pay for both!
Samsung Add (Score:2)
Re:No thanks (Score:5, Funny)
Come on, think of the awesome sales pitch these guys are getting. "Don 't be Evil"? Screw that. Come to the dark side. You have no idea of the full financial advantage of the dark side. Watch those that believe in open standards tremble at your feet.
Re:No thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
Come on, think of the awesome sales pitch these guys are getting. "Don 't be Evil"? Screw that. Come to the dark side. You have no idea of the full financial advantage of the dark side. Watch those that believe in open standards tremble at your feet.
Yes, because Google Maps is such an open standard. /s
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No thanks (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, because Google Maps is such an open standard. /s
They provide access to their API, anyone can freely integrate it into their software, websites, or Android apps and even insert their own maps.
https://developers.google.com/maps/ [google.com]
Re:No thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, because Google Maps is such an open standard. /s
They provide access to their API, anyone can freely integrate it into their software, websites, or Android apps and even insert their own maps.
https://developers.google.com/maps/ [google.com]
Misleading, at best.
Google charges you if you go over a certain number of users:
http://searchenginewatch.com/article/2122151/Google-Maps-API-to-Charge-for-High-Volume-Usage [searchenginewatch.com]
If you want access to map tiles, you simply can't get them, and Google will send their lawyers after you if you reverse engineer.
At least with Apple maps commercial use is free. And Bing will let you license the raw map tiles and provide you with an API to get them.)
(Citation: I've worked on software that implemented Maps from scratch and tried to license from Google. Google also made the news recently when they raised their rates: )
Re:No thanks (Score:5, Informative)
I'd believe Florian Mueller and Steve Jobs when he was alive before I'd believe searchenginewatch.
Google work for you?
https://developers.google.com/maps/faq#usagelimits [google.com]
Ummmm--Apple's mapping solution has a free API. (Score:3)
They also have a pretty long history of favoring open standards (Postscript, HTML5, etc.).
Re:No thanks (Score:5, Funny)
You're thinking of Dead Steve. Zombie Steve is still at Microsoft.
Re:No thanks (Score:4, Funny)
"Oh, hey, Look! A Steve Jobs free for the taking!"
What other company? (Score:2)
From what I understand it was the weird cult of personality around Jobs that let them do that.
Not from talking to anyone I've ever known that worked at Apple.
Apple is paranoid and a bit of a slave driver. BUT currently they are the thought leader in the mobile industry. What other company could you work at where so many projects are used by hundreds of millions of users? Where potentially you might be working on new projects with the same range.
If you care about work being used, Apple is a pretty compe
Re:frist psot! (Score:5, Insightful)
what would apple do if samsung did this to them? what would the courts reactions be?
Excuse me? You realise that at some point Apple, Google and others had agreements not to headhunt each other's employees, and _have been told by courts that such an agreement is illegal_?
Hiring Google ex-employees and even more hiring Google employees is something that Apple is _expected_ to do by Californian law. Free market. Free choice of employees to work for whoever pays most.