Iran Threatens Legal Action Against Google For Not Labeling Gulf 'Persian' 246
New submitter PantherSE writes with an article at CNN about the geopolitical importance of labeling, excerpting thus: "Iran has threatened legal action against Google for not labeling the Persian Gulf on its maps. 'Toying with modern technologies in political issues is among the new measures by the enemies against Iran, (and) in this regard, Google has been treated as a plaything,' Foreign Ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast said Thursday, according to state-run Press TV. He added that 'omitting the name Persian Gulf is (like) playing with the feelings and realities of the Iranian nation.'"
What's missing? (Score:2, Interesting)
Is the Persian Gulf unlabeled? Is it labeled "Gulf" (sounds stupid, but no reason for a lawsuit)? Is it labeled something else?
Re:What's missing? (Score:5, Funny)
Is the Persian Gulf unlabeled? Is it labeled "Gulf" (sounds stupid, but no reason for a lawsuit)? Is it labeled something else?
It's labeled Israeli Freedom Pond.
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Did you check out the change log? Trademark issues, spam, blah, blah.
If it wasn't locked, I'd change it to "Not Iran". :)
Re:What's missing? (Score:5, Interesting)
hehe. Someone labeled it again. :) Well, I'll explain how to do it without the marker. It'll still work this way.
Go to http://maps.google.com/ [google.com]
Search "Persian Gulf"
In the middle of the gulf, right click, and select "Directions To Here"
You'll now have a green marker in the middle of the water. Click on it. It'll say something like
Click on "More" and then click "Edit History"
Someone made the gulf a polygon back in 2009. You'll see it in the history. :) You can do this almost anywhere in the gulf, I'd think. I just aimed for the middle.
The Arabian Gulf also has a marker, but it's just off of Kuwait. It's been there since 2009, and there is some discussion on the fact it should be the entire gulf, not just a coastal area.
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It is unlabeled. Several of the bodies of water, including the smaller and neighboring Gulf of Oman, and around the Arabian peninsula, the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea are all labelled.
Re:What's missing? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What's missing? (Score:5, Funny)
No. Google is moving to a sponsorship system. It is now "The Persian Gulf, brought to you by Budweiser".
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It should be labelled the Exxon Gulf.
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You make a good point. I searched for "BP Gulf" and that region is clearly well defined already.
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It's unlabelled. Looks like Google is trying to avoid a controversy I didn't even know existed. Apparently some Arabs want it renamed the "Arabian Gulf."
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It's got a big banner that says, "Getting first post is more important than adding to the discussion".
But I'm sure you knew that already.
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Who defined correct?
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The CIA is not an authority on the correct naming of anything outside of US borders, and especially not on the other side of the planet. The UN really isn't either; why should countries far removed from your own get to name bodies of water that border your country? I don't see how the IHO has any authority either. And private companies certainly aren't authorities on geopolitical matters either.
The only people who have a real right to name things are people in the area that geographical feature is. Here
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I thought the Iranians were complaining about Google not naming it the Arabian Gulf. Looks like I had it backwards.
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That's what I thought but apparently some stuff will always get through.
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Yes, although if you search for "Persian Gulf", it takes you right there to where the label would be, exactly as when you search for the (labelled) "Gulf of California".
Persian vs Arabian (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Persian vs Arabian (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Persian vs Arabian (Score:5, Funny)
In your case, there still is no English language at all.
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[...] fighted against Persia [...] when there was not even English language at all.
Oh, yes </asshole-mode>
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GP is probably Russian - quit pointing out unimportant grammar errors as if they diminish his actual point. His English is likely better than your Russian, or whatever GP's first language is.
Re:Persian vs Arabian (Score:5, Funny)
Makedonsky was nothing. Genghis Mongolovski was more greater. Guess who he fighted? The EVERYBODY! He maked Turks very pride, so now Persian jealous and not call it real name, Mongol Gulf.
Re:Persian vs Arabian (Score:5, Informative)
It is not the only such place, either - Sea of Japan is unlabeled as well (I assume because Korea takes an issue with that label, preferring to call it "Eastern Sea").
Re:Persian vs Arabian (Score:4)
Re:Japanese vs Korean (Score:4, Informative)
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Yeah and the Chinese like to call it the Sea of China. Which both sides don't like. They should just call it the North Yellow Sea and be done with it.
Re:Persian vs Arabian (Score:5, Funny)
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Why don't they just put both labels on it?
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Usually what they do is simply return different results depending on where you're from and people don't know differently. I presume they have either stopped doing that in general or in this case there's no clear agreement even based on where you are what the official name is. (Obviously in Iran it's the 'persian gulf' but the US, EU and UN may not have any official position on the matter as it's not a territorial dispute, it's just a terminology dispute).
Even if they do have an officially recognized name
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This isn't a list on a document, it's labels on a map. They could easily put both names in, closer to the respective countries that prefer those names. So "Persian Gulf" would appear near the Iranian shore, and "Arabian Gulf" would appear near the southern shore.
Re:Persian vs Arabian (Score:4, Funny)
Better yet. Label it 'Persian Gulf' in Farsi, 'Arabian Gulf' in Arabic and 'Greater Israel Mega Fjord' in Hebrew.
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That's a whole new pissing match. Why is your "Arabian Gulf" shown in our "Persian Gulf". The same could be said about the other names, "The Gulf", "Gulf of Iran", "Jama Sea", "Pars Sea", "Persian Sea".
In 2006, the UN agreed that the body of water is to be known as the "Persian Gulf". Then it becomes a question of, is Google responsible for international negotiations on naming rights and the proper name for every place? Leaving a disputed location unmarked can be problem
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Is this the same reason they left Louisville, Kentucky unlabeled for many years? Was there some controversy, with Ohio wanting to call the city something else?
Plaything? (Score:2)
Oh it's on ____.
Seems so 1995... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Seems so 1995... (Score:5, Informative)
I had to check and sure enough the Persian Gulf isn't labeled. So I did the obvious thing and scrolled over to China and saw that Taiwan was labeled Taiwan.
As far as geopolitics go, I think keeping China happy by not provoking them on the Taiwan issue is far more important than ticking off Iran by not labeling the Persian Gulf.
I couldn't even fathom why this was an issue, but google brought up this link about a naming dispute [wikipedia.org] which Iran apparently takes quite seriously. So, if the goal was to piss off and humiliate Iran, wouldn't Google have labeled it the Arabian Gulf?
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What does China (People's Republic of China) call the island of Taiwan if not Taiwan? Formosa?
If they want to avoid pissing off China (PRC) they would avoid labeling Taiwan as the "Republic of China", which they have.
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It's labeled as an independent country, which I assure you is the essence of the dispute.
Re:Seems so 1995... (Score:4, Informative)
No, it's a "region". All the countries are "regions", but not all "regions" are necessarily countries. It's a great weasel word for people who want to reach some sort of consensus (i.e. on "country codes") without being able to resolve 50 year old conflicts. Taiwan also has its own "country code" (.tw), because it is an independent country, dependent territory, or special area of geographical interest - and the beauty is you don't have to say which.
Seriously, Microsoft has had employees detained in China because they didn't make this sort of thing clear enough.
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No, it's a "region". All the countries are "regions", but not all "regions" are necessarily countries.
Huh. So are there any "regions" which aren't "countries" according to people who don't have a vested political interest in them not being countries, or is this literally a "Let's make China happy" weasel?
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Alaska is a region and not a country. It's part of a larger country, the USA, but on Google Maps, it only says "Alaska" and draws the border separating it from Canada. The "Alaska" font is smaller than the "Canada" font however.
Svalbard is also a region (and island chain), and not a country. It's owned by Norway, but Google Maps only shows "Svalbard". And the font is just as big as those used for other European countries.
The ownership of both these regions is not in dispute (except maybe by Sarah Palin'
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So I did the obvious thing and scrolled over to China and saw that Taiwan was labeled Taiwan.
PRC does not have a problem with the term "Taiwan" as such, because it's just the name of the island. They only get a fit if you call it "Republic of China", or otherwise state or imply that it's a sovereign country.
If you want another example where a name is omitted on Google Maps for what looks like political reasons, try Sea of Japan.
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or otherwise state or imply that it's a sovereign country.
Which, as I should have clarified, is exactly what they've done. Taiwan is labeled as an independent country. Contrast with Puerto Rico or any of the islands that make up the Philippines to see the difference.
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When I look at it in Google Maps, I actually see the localized Chinese label, so I don't know what it says. But it doesn't look like a country label - it's slightly bolded, and larger than other labels, but e.g. Hong Kong is labelled in exact same font size/weight. And labels for individual US states and Canadian provinces are even more prominent.
The only reliable indicator of whether it's a country or not on Google Maps seems to be the way borders are drawn - borders between states are solid, while those b
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When I look at it in Google Maps, I actually see the localized Chinese label, so I don't know what it says. But it doesn't look like a country label - it's slightly bolded, and larger than other labels, but e.g. Hong Kong is labelled in exact same font size/weight.
Then it's localized to also not be a country (or just more confusing with Chinese characters). On my Google Maps it's the exact same font as everything that is a country and nothing that isn't. It is very clear that it is treated as a country.
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One interesting thing I've noticed is that it seems to depend on whether I enable WebGL or not. When it's enabled, it seems that labels are drawn client-side, and then the label for Taiwan is just as big as for China. Without WebGL, the labels are part of the tile images, and there it's the same size as Hong Kong, and smaller than China.
I wonder if it also depends on the language for the labels. For me, all labels show in the local language - i.e. in Chinese for China, in Japanese for Japan, in English for
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On the drop-down menu in the upper-right of Google Maps, where you would pick Satellite/Maps/Photos/etc, one of the options I have is a checkbox labeled 'English' which determines if the labels show up in English or their local language.
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Um, you can look at Google Maps yourself and see that I'm telling the truth. Or you could try to justify your baseless claim by using poetic verbiage. Which would be more adult?
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This is pretty confusing with Japanese prefecture boundaries/labels and 'ward' boundaries/labels as well.
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No, it's not. Take a look at Svalbard.
Re:Seems so 1995... (Score:5, Informative)
Why isn't my time zone highlighted on the world map? [msdn.com]
In the original release of Windows 95, you could change your time zone by clicking on the map, and the time zone you selected would highlight. Similarly, you could change your Region Settings by clicking on the world map. This was one of those little touches that made Windows 95 that much more fun to use.
But we had to remove those features within months of release, even though we based both of the maps on the borders officially recognized by the United Nations.
In early 1995, a border war broke out between Peru and Ecuador and the Peruvian government complained to Microsoft that the border was incorrectly placed. Of course, if we complied and moved the border northward, we'd get an equally angry letter from the Ecuadorian government demanding that we move it back. So we removed the feature altogether.
The time zone map met a similar fate. The Indian government threatened to ban all Microsoft software from the country because we assigned a disputed region to Pakistan in the time zone map. (Any map that depicts an unfavorable border must bear a government stamp warning the end-user that the borders are incorrect. You can't stamp software.) We had to make a special version of Windows 95 for them.
Geopolitics is a very sensitive subject.
Google gets entangled in Taiwan-China dispute [msn.com]
Google Inc.'s popular online mapping service has become entangled in a long-running territorial dispute between China and Taiwan.
Until recently, Google's maps described Taiwan as a "province of China." That sparked protests from Taiwan's government, which has considered its island an independent state since ending a civil war with China more than a half-century ago.
Shortly after Taiwan's foreign ministry formally complained, the China reference abruptly disappeared from Google's Taiwan map last week. That change has provoked cries of dismay in China and talk of a possible boycott of Google's service in that country, according to Chinese media.
If I recall correctly, Microsoft also faced the same issue after they suggested Taiwan was somehow an independent nation in locale settings, but they changed it after the Chinese government complained.
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Google generally takes to naming things the local term. But I knew about a naming clash for Macedonia. Apparently Google has labeled it first with its native name, then the Latin character equivalent while also including the United Nations-recognized "FYROM" (the former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia... yes, the "former" is capitalized correctly... it is also sorted as if it starts with a "t", because it does.)
Do they mean ... (Score:5, Funny)
US Government Does it Too (Score:5, Informative)
As it's bordered roughly on half by Arabian countries and half by Persian (Iran), there's a strong case for either.
I looked on Google Maps and there isn't a name now, although I don't know if that was that way prior to Iran's actions.
Re:US Government Does it Too (Score:5, Informative)
Persian Gulf naming dispute [wikipedia.org]
"In recent years, due to increased cooperation with Arab states of the Persian Gulf, various branches of the U.S. armed forces have issued directives to their members to use the "Arabian Gulf" when operating in the area ("Persian Gulf" is still used in official publications and websites), partially to follow local conventions, or simply to follow local laws that ban the use of "Persian Gulf", e.g. in the United Arab Emirates."
Well I suppose if you ignore everything else, including the fact that up until the 60's those Arabian countries were perfectly fine with the name, then yes, they have just a strong claim.
It has been called the Persian Gulf since around 550 BC.
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But when we go to war, it's definitely with the Persian Gulf. At least twice, of course. Or is it best out of five?
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Thing is, the attested use of the term "Persian Sea" or "Persian Gulf" dates back at least to the Roman Empire - and was universally used by all Western countries and all Arab countries. The idea that it should be renamed "Arabian" is a 20-century Arab nationalist rallying cry. I don't see any reason to break from historical usage to appease someone's newly-found sensitivities. When US appeared as an independent country, we didn't rename the Gulf of Mexico, for example.
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When US appeared as an independent country, we didn't rename the Gulf of Mexico, for example.
Hmmm.... I smell an opportunity to score some cheap nationalist political points. It's never too late to do something retarded....
All official US sources say Persian Gulf (Score:5, Informative)
The White House, Department of Defense, the State department and the CIA beg to differ.
The Department of Defense says "Navy Looks to Bolster Capabilities in Persian Gulf" (2012):
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=67586 [defense.gov]
The State Department notes in a briefing by Secretary of State Clinton on her visit to India in May 2012 that peace in the Persian Gulf is important:
http://translations.state.gov/st/english/texttrans/2012/05/201205085219.html#axzz1vAEAsbH0 [state.gov]
The White House's press briefing includes references to carriers in the Persian Gulf (2012):
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/04/09/press-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-4912/ [whitehouse.gov]
This is the CIA's World Fact Book entry for Iran. Look at the map saying "Persian Gulf".
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ir.html [cia.gov]
The State Department shows the same map for Iran ("Persian Gulf"):
http://www.state.gov/p/nea/ci/ir/ [state.gov]
The CIA's Persian Gulf War Task Force was last reviewed and updated in January 2012.
https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/gulfwar/index.htm [cia.gov]
Love it. (Score:2)
'omitting the name Persian Gulf is (like) playing with the feelings and realities of the Iranian nation.' - Ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast
To which Google replied... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkbabSAvhDg [youtube.com]
My street name is misspelled (Score:2)
It used to be right, and then they added in an extra g for some reason. I wrote a message on the Google Maps "support" forum and never got a response. I'd say Mehmanparast just had the same experience that I did, but overreacted a little.
I mean, you'd have to be crazy to actually want to sue, wouldn't you?
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Good advice from the AC. Here's the link [google.com] that tells you how to report a map data error.
Name By Client Location (Score:2)
That's Funny! (Score:2)
Google is anti-European! (Score:2)
Google is anti-European! There's no label on the largest lake in Europe, Lake Ladoga!
Or, you know, it could be just a cartographic layout decision, just as the lack of a label on the Persian Gulf is.
Google is even more anti-Australian! (Score:2)
Google is even more anti-Australian than anti-European! You can't even find the Gulf of Carpentaria on a Google Maps search!
It actually turns out that there is a whole naming dispute over the Persian Gulf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_naming_dispute [wikipedia.org]
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There's no layout decisions there, since the map is zoomable. They can always start showing the label at certain zoom levels - only they don't, even when other bodies of water of smaller size do at the same level.
Nah, it's just Google trying to dodge the bullet. If they use "Persian Gulf", then Egypt etc will get mad at them. So they don't label it either way.
Turkey threatened HP over Kurdish Language (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to work for HP, and the Turkish government threatened to ban our Debian-based thin clients because one of the language options with Kurdish. Apparently, the Turks are so sensitive about the Kurds that even having the language option appear in the list was unacceptable within their country. They refuse to acknowledge the Kurds, so they try to wipe out any evidence within Turkey that they ever existed, past or present.
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I forgot to mention that I believe the solution we came up with was to have a special branch in our code base that was identical to the trunk, with the single exception being that the Kurdish language was removed. We mercilessly mocked Turkey for weeks over the absurdity of their childish demands.
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First they want to wipe out the Armenians, now they want to wipe out the Kurds. Those Turks sound like a bunch of jerks.
Solution for all (Score:3)
Google vs. nationalist stupidity (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, the many ways to provoke a nationalist!
I used to hang out on the Google translate forum. Every week there would be some loony nationalist who was deeply offended that
* His language was not implemented (Turks, mostly)
* His language was not implemented to his satisfaction (Lithuanians in particular. "Our language is the most complex in the world!")
* An "enemy" language was implemented ("Macedonian is not a language! It is a dialect of Bulgarian!" - said by Greeks)
* Their national anthem inexplicably got the words "God Save The Queen" inserted into them (an Irishman, memorably)
* etc.
In any case, the only explanation which they would accept was a deep conspiracy at Google to taunt and slight their proud nations.
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I want to shake the hand of the guy who wrote the code that added 'god save the queen' to the Irish national anthem. That's brilliant.
How do you say 'god save the queen' in Gaelic? 'Dia shábháil banríon' according to Google translate (Irish is a language?).
WTF? (Score:3)
In what court is Iran going so sue Google? Does Google have a presence in Iran? Or are they going to send lawyers over to the Great Satan and file in their jurisdiction? That would be hilarious -- country has feelings hurt by multinational company.
If I look on google Maps, Tibet is labelled as Tibet ... not the "northern resource area" or whatever China calls it. I still refer to it as Burma, not Myanmar.
And therein lies the rub ... countries don't have feelings. Getting all butt-hurt because the rest of the world won't label things to match what you want them to is childish and petulant ... but I guess that's pretty much Iran's foreign policy.
The Foreign Ministry spokesman has a tiny penis, and a brain to match.
I'd kind of like to see Sasha Baron Cohen as the Dictator simply reading the public statements which have come out of Iran over the last several years -- that would be bloody hilarious. Or, totally indistinguishable from the real thing.
What sort of legal action? (Score:3)
I've never heard of any legal success in the US on those grounds(though PR concerns certainly motivate companies to tread lightly) and under the present US sanctions, Google is unlikely to be officially operating within Iran at all(given the SSL MiTM incident a while back, there are obviously Iranians using Google services; but the sanctions make it rather unlikely that Google would choose to site any official branch offices there), so it hardly matters whether Iran has a rule against hurting their feelings in the process of mapping.
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They threatened "legal action" but that doesn't mean they have to file suit in US courts. Iran is a sovereign nation and they follow Sharia law. The Ayatollah can issue a Fatwa to "all believers" to murder Google execs anywhere they are found.
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatwas [wikipedia.org]
Should change their name (Score:4, Interesting)
They should change their name from IRAN to IRAA. Then we would be scared of their threats. Next thing North KORAA will be taking legal action against the New York Times for referring to them as a "Stalinist dictatorship " [1.]
1. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/02/international/asia/02CND-KORE.html?ex=1380513600&en=a29d7f1e49aabee0&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND [nytimes.com]
Google.ir (Score:4, Funny)
My suggestion for Google,
Searches for "Persian Gulf" on Google.ir are going to return:
"Did you mean: 'How to violently overthrow an idiotic, oppressive regime'?"
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I think there are a lot of Americans wanting to overthrow an idiotic and oppressive regime with secret prisons and officially condoned torture. They won't have to go very far to do it.
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Worth noting that Iran meets your criteria just as well.
Search Google Maps for... (Score:2)
In related news... (Score:2)
"The spokesperson would not name any other specific areas that are not labeled."
In related news, the members of the band "America" have issued a press release declining to give the name of the horse in the song "A Horse With No Name".
-- Terry
Ask nicely? Maybe you'll get what they want. (Score:2)
Unless you're just looking for a fight, getting all pissy about it first isn't the best way to get what you want.
Iran is right on this one (Score:2)
Re:Iran is wrong on this one (Score:2)
Iran is embaressing themselves again. (Score:2)
What are they afraid of? That people are going to call it the Israeli gulf?
Get a grip, psychos.
Re:Seriously (Score:5, Interesting)
We had a group of people that insisted on using the phrase "Freedom Fries", so I don't think the US is one to talk about what's silly or not.
Re:Seriously (Score:4)
There's a bit of a difference between calling something by a silly name, and threatening legal action against someone. I don't recall anyone from the US State Department (equivalent to the Foreign Ministry, I assume) ever mentioning the matter, much less threatening anyone who avoided the matter by just calling them "fries."
Though I do wonder: legal action? What are they going to sue Google for? The closet thing I can think of is lack of trademark attribution, which is still light years away from being applicable.
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Oh wow, I'd forgotten about that. It really was the dumbest thing ever, but it was good for a giggle at the time.
Funny how history puts a less humorous, embarrassing patina on it.
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this is real life. You can choose not to participate.
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