How Romanian Fortune Tellers Used Google To Fleece Victims 140
Hentes writes "The internet has made many things easier, but unfortunately this also includes crime: it seems that nowadays not even people wanting to know their future are safe from fraud. Two fortune tellers are being investigated, after the Romanian police uncovered that they have utilized some extraordinary help in their clairvoyant acts. The pair used information collected from internet search and social networks to gain the trust of their customers, claiming that they could see their personal data through their crystal ball. In some cases, they also used high-tech surveillance techniques such as hidden cameras and phone tapping. But they didn't stop at merely spying on their victims: their most bizarre case involved a scuba diver dressed as a monster." Nice to know that internet-based fraud isn't limited to motivational speakers with real-estate seminars and other get-rich-quick flim-flam.
It's a foregone conclusion (Score:5, Insightful)
If you pay someone money and expect them to tell your future, you will never be safe from fraud. In fact, as your palm reading crystal adviser, I sense...fraud...in your future.
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That's the joke.
Suckers are born every second (Score:3)
Ever since the dawn of time there have been suckers
And that's the only reason why con artists thrive all through the millennia
The Net is a tool, use by everyone, including the con artists - and the suckers?
Well ... suckers are _still_ falling into the Nigerian money transfer scam, don't they?
William "Canada Bill" Jones quote (Score:4, Funny)
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Thanks. I've used that quote for years without knowing it's source.
BTW I agree.
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Re:Suckers are born every second (Score:5, Funny)
"Well ... suckers are _still_ falling into the Nigerian money transfer scam, don't they?"
Not to mention talking snakes, virgin mothers and bearded men in the sky.
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To be fair, nobody actually has evidence *against* any of those (yeah, yeah, can't prove a negative etc.) and they're not an ongoing phenomena so can't really be tested at all. On the other hand psychics of all stripes have been fleecing suckers throughout history* and not one has ever been proven effective. Tip: when hiring a psychic be sure you ask them why they haven't yet claimed the million-dollar prize that's been waiting for years for the first person to demonstrate paranormal abilities that can s
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Re:It's a foregone conclusion (Score:4, Insightful)
No fortune teller believes in their own powers any more than a stage magician does. To provide customers with a skillful illusion requires the awareness of building the illusion - the fortune teller has to cold-read their customer, provide vague hints and leading questions.
That said, a fortune teller doesn't have to be a fraud any more than a stage magician does; it can be a nice form of entertainment. The difference is that far less customers believe in stage illusions than in fortune telling, and fortune tellers - once they have stumbled across a gullible customer - will often proceed to fleece them for everything they own.
Re:It's a foregone conclusion (Score:5, Insightful)
No fortune teller believes in their own powers...
You under estimate the power of self delusion.
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No fortune teller believes in their own powers...
You under estimate the power of self delusion.
If you're using Google, Facebook, etc as an information source it's a pretty clear indication that your real power is lying to your victims.
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Maybe in the cited case, but even then you encounter too many people who claim they're just filling in the gaps in their own very real powers, or just priming their special gift with some data they look up because they find "it works better then". Even in the clear ripoff cases the ripoff artists can have some very weird descriptions of what they're doing.
This isn't a situation where the smart people with a good understanding of what makes a scientific hypothesis, are fooling those who don't have this under
Re:It's a foregone conclusion (Score:5, Interesting)
No fortune teller believes in their own powers any more than a stage magician does.
I actually know someone personally who does believe in her own future prediction power. How I can be sure? She makes financially obviously unsound decisions like selling her nearly-new car, etc. because of some calculations she did based on the current locations of some molten rocks in the sky. She actually has to run a special Win 3.1 program for that, because it's the only one which does the calculations she needs.
To provide customers with a skillful illusion requires the awareness of building the illusion - the fortune teller has to cold-read their customer, provide vague hints and leading questions.
Generally yes, but you can learn to do that unconsciously, to the point where you can do that successfully on yourself. You just have to really believe in it.
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What's the program? Sounds like there might be some money in recoding those calculations into a nice shiny iPhone app...
I don't know, and I'm unable to ask (due to something unrelated to this). However, I guess the application isn't that popular even among astrologers, since otherwise the original programmer would likely have rewritten it using a more modern approach.
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What's the program? Sounds like there might be some money in recoding those calculations into a nice shiny iPhone app...
I don't know, and I'm unable to ask (due to something unrelated to this). However, I guess the application isn't that popular even among astrologers, since otherwise the original programmer would likely have rewritten it using a more modern approach.
However, someone put a curse on his money and his computer.
--
Eight posts from now, this thread will be cursed with Michael Kristopeit.
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There are several good counter arguments for that.
The program is most likely fifteen years or more old - the original programmer may have long since moved on and no longer programs, are has had a change of mind/heart over the whole future prediction thing. Heck maybe they managed to predict the lottery results, if so why would they now need to work on that astrology stuff now?
The programmer may have rele
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Heck maybe they managed to predict the lottery results, if so why would they now need to work on that astrology stuff now?
Yeah, if someone really could predict the future, get an edge at gambling, et cetera - they wouldn't need to hustle people a few (or several) bucks at a time.
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I always use Google Sky Map. Aha! Mercury is in the Ascendant on the Whale. Ooh and Neptune is close to Aquarius.
Here's my prediction based on Google Sky Map: avoid water. There is a Whale in your future together with Neptune, God of the Sea. There is also a light (Aquarius, enlightenment) in your future so you will probably light a match to see what's going on after being swallowed. This will explode the whale, killing you.
My advice: stay away from seas and aquariums. Now give me 50 bucks :)
(Yeah I know ol
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Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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Actually, that works, because a lot of people are doing the same.
That's a bit narrow-minded, I think (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm an engineer and been atheist my whole life, so I don't believe in horoscopes/crystals/palm reading/etc... However, I've found that I immensely enjoy occasional tarot sessions. I don't believe any of that outside those sessions but every once in a while, it's nice to meet someone more spiritual than I am, light a few candles, smoke a bit of tobacco from a bong, engage in the whole tarot ritual (sliding fingers on the deck, etc.), have her read the cards for me and then reflect on how to interpret that all based on my history and expectations for the future.
It's almost therapeutic to completely suspend your disbelief every once in a while and get in touch with the spiritual side (I think that there is a certain mental state that every human - no matter how skeptic, etc. - can achieve if they want to... and it's pretty pleasant, really). As long as you keep it at that and don't ever start to think that you could actually make important decisions based on all that, it's pretty much the most harmless source of enjoyment that there is.
So, if people want that and what they get is that someone wiretaps their phones, installs hidden cameras to their apartment, etc... it's not okay to say "Well, what did they expect? Of course they're going to get scammed!"
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"It's almost therapeutic to completely suspend your disbelief every once in a while..."
True, and I completely agree with the general sentiment of what you say.
But when someone says it's real, they (not a joke) imply a warranty, and fraud charges are the frequent result.
If it is clearly stated that the service is "for entertainment purposes only", and no other claims are made, then it's a perfectly legitimate operation. It's the others that run afoul of our standards of business.
If it * IS * labeled "for entertainment only", then you can decide for yourself at what level you prefer to
Good Advice (Score:2)
Can we require "for entertainment only" to be inscribed on a plaque over every church entrance?
In all seriousness though, I think there may well be something to be said for good priests/psychics/astrologers/etc. I would say one of the marks of a really good practitioner, of the sort that can get repeat customers for years or decades on end, is the ability to consistently give good advice. That's a rare skill that modern society doesn't really give recognition to. One could even argue that the ability to
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Not all self-proclaimed "psychics" are benevolent, for example. Many of them have been exposed as scam artists who prey on the gullible. Of course, evangelists have been known to do the same... and astrologers too.
That is why I think a warning is appropriate: if you are warned that there is no scientific basis for claims of truth or
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that would be part of the entertainment value
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I'm an engineer and been atheist my whole life, so I don't believe in horoscopes/crystals/palm reading/etc... However, I've found that I immensely enjoy occasional tarot sessions. I don't believe any of that outside those sessions but every once in a while, it's nice to meet someone more spiritual than I am, light a few candles, smoke a bit of tobacco from a bong, engage in the whole tarot ritual (sliding fingers on the deck, etc.), have her read the cards for me and then reflect on how to interpret that all based on my history and expectations for the future.
It's almost therapeutic to completely suspend your disbelief every once in a while and get in touch with the spiritual side (I think that there is a certain mental state that every human - no matter how skeptic, etc. - can achieve if they want to... and it's pretty pleasant, really). As long as you keep it at that and don't ever start to think that you could actually make important decisions based on all that, it's pretty much the most harmless source of enjoyment that there is.
Sounds like you use tarot readings as a more-fun therapy session: reflecting on what's going on in your life, where you'd like to head, and what to do about it. As long as you treat it more like a campy discussion & less like mystical powers, you're in good shape.
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I'm an engineer and have been straight my whole life, so I don't believe in rimming/rusty trombones/etc.... However, I've found that I immensely enjoy occasional gay sex. I don't believe any of that outside those sessions, but every once in a while, it's nice to meet someone gayer than I am, like a few candles, smoke a bit of tobacco from a bong, engage in the whole gay sex ritual (sliding fingers on the sack, etc.), have him toss my salad and then reflect on how to interpret that all based on my history an
Of course it is! (Score:2)
It's almost therapeutic to completely suspend your disbelief every once in a while and get in touch with the spiritual side (I think that there is a certain mental state that every human - no matter how skeptic, etc. - can achieve if they want to... and it's pretty pleasant, really).
Of course it's pleasant. Why do you think the majority of people are religious? Being an atheist is HARD because you can't abdicate responsibility to the man in the sky/tarot cards/etc. Not saying that you believe, but now you see how seductive it can be...
Opiate of the masses, indeed.
As long as you keep it at that and don't ever start to think that you could actually make important decisions based on all that, it's pretty much the most harmless source of enjoyment that there is.
Casinos are always packed to the gills with people. Do you *really* think they all see it as nothing more than entertainment and fully expect to lose all the money they put on the table?
So yes, if you have the right mindset
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No it's only a foregone conclusion for inebriated halfwits who'd choose their doctor from a police line up of serial killers.
The better ones are the ones that you get to know usually through a network of acquaintances. They've been practicing for at least a decade after apprenticing that long. They will have a business license. They have a fixed place of business and fixed prices.They will do standard horoscope and can do the base 12 math. They work with you on interpretation and the results get better as y
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Come and see. Someone in the middle of being long grifted.
When did you first begin to trust your 'fortune teller'?
What was the first 'slightly preposterous' thing they got you to buy into?
Would you like a free personality test?
People just don't care anymore (Score:2)
Is this even new?
When I tell some, they have to watch their PC better, against trojans and virusses, I get the reaction: "who cares? it's only data!" or "I don't got anything to hide" or "There is not that much important on my PC"; While it's THEIR privacy which is at stake and THEIR pc is getting (ab)used to breach the privacy/security of others.
Lots of people just don't care anymore about stuff which they don't understand; as long "as it works" it's allright for them ..
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If you pay someone money and expect them to tell your future, you will never be safe from fraud. In fact, as your palm reading crystal adviser, I sense...fraud...in your future.
Is it actually a fraud when any sane and reasonable person knows what is going on?
Yes. (Score:2)
Defrauding mentally ill or retarded people is still fraud.
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Anyone really surprised by this? (Score:3)
After finding out there are people buying spell casting services overy ebay in their thousands this is not surprising at all. A fool and his/her money is quickly seperated.
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You should always attribute your quotations. That's Steve Jobs, right?
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He never actually said it in public. Trade secret, see.
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Steve Jobs: 'A fool and their money were lucky to get together in the first place!'
Pluralis majestatis?
Ah, right, the customer is king (but as we believe in democracy, the king is allowed spend money, but otherwise must be completely disempowered).
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Apple are working on this. It'll be integrated with a Feng-shui app, a subluxation detector & a method for ordering homeopathic medicines online[1].
It'll be called iCon.
[1] Apple will get 30% plus 30% of the rest plus 30% of the rest plus 30% of the rest plus 30% of the rest plus 30% of the rest plus 30% of the rest plus 30% of the rest plus 30% of the rest.
Surprising how old the techniques are (Score:5, Insightful)
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"... a scuba diver dressed as a monster ..." (Score:5, Funny)
And they would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for those darn meddling kids!
superstition and religion (Score:2)
Re:superstition and religion (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:superstition and religion (Score:5, Funny)
Ridiculous.
I mean, you don't get a tax exemption for always putting your left shoe on first, do you?
Re:superstition and religion (Score:4, Informative)
Am I the only one who did a double take... (Score:4, Informative)
after first thinking the article was about Romulan fortune tellers.
I've been watching too much DS9 on Netflix (Score:1)
...and thought exactly the same thing.
"Romulans. They're so predictably treacherous!"
How they told your fortune (Score:1)
They used Japanese ATMs [slashdot.org]
Steve are you there? (Score:3, Funny)
Olga sits at her desk with her clients holding hand in a circle around her Ipad ...the candle flickers....One of the clients desperately wants to speak to Steve about why suddenly his Mac Book Pro is vulnerable to the "curse of the Open Windows"
Olga says she senses an evil presence in the room and that Steve is telling her that there is something very wrong with her clients Mac Book Pro and that it will only be free from evil when he removes boot camp and returns to the pure essence of Apple!
Olga takes her 200 dollar malware removal fee, 20% of which is paid to Symantec for setting her up in business.
I see many scenes like this happening to Mac users in the future.
Yes... (Score:4, Funny)
As opposed to the traditional fortune tellers? (Score:4, Insightful)
Every and all fortune teller is committing fraud - these were just higher-tech than the rest.
My favourite part of the article... (Score:1)
Re:My favourite part of the article... (Score:4, Insightful)
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In Romania, that's probably a satchel VHS camera with a stage microphone taped to the window.
Dear bruce, Stop being an assole and keep your irony for yourself. Romanian is among top five countries on Internet connection speed. And regarding security, it has best border surveillance systems among EU countries. Oh, and please do you research first ...
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the story sounds fishy (Score:3)
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I've seen every episode of Trek (Score:1)
Weekly World News (Score:1)
I Can See Your Personal Data (Score:2)
You don't really need Google for this though. Plenty of suckers out there are quite happy to believe a cold reading.
Rectangular Bigotry? (Score:2)
Why is it illegal to search clients' public websites via a spherical monitor? I don't get it.
And they would've got away with it too... (Score:1)
...if it weren't for those pesky kids in the stoner van.
"their most bizarre case involved a scuba diver dressed as a monster."
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Heh; someone else got there first though - I didn't see his comment til after I'd posted...
Sounds like (Score:1)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry [wikipedia.org]
Let me get this straight... (Score:1)
So it's all right to flat out pretend that you can see the future, but if you do research first, it's fraud?
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Just because most of your telecommunication infrastructure was built way after you got rid of the asshat.
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"Borat" wasn't a documentary, if you can't make the difference please don't watch "Zombie Apocalypse" or anything similar. For your own good.
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You might not know this, but a common comedic technique is to base things pretty closely on the truth.
See: "Royle Family", "The Office" and (allegedly) "Yes, [Prime] Minister."
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Even if the pretended documentary would be close to the truth for the sake of whatever technique this still wouldn't say anything about Romania; you can gather as much if you knew at least the full title of the movie, which is "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan".
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You mean it wasn't ok to shoot my neighbor when he asked whether the fuck I have some brain in that skull of mine?
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Also, it pains me that they call those fortune tellers Romanian since they're actually gypsies. This is a huge problem for us, the gypsies go in other countries, pull shit like this and worse (stealing, beating people up) and then they say they're Romanian. Everyone thinks Romania is a gypsy country or something.
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And to add insult to injury they are calling themselves Rroma instead of Gypsies, because they claim that the word Gypsy is demeaning and not politically correct.
The irony is that, in the Romanian language the word Gypsy ("tigan") is purely descriptive of their ethnicity (same as words like German, French or Romanian), but in time began to have a bad connotation because of the way Gypsies behaved (all sort of cons, small time crime, corruption etc). So came a time when they decided to rebrand themselves.
Acc
Corruption? (Score:2)
Doesn't corruption require the wielding of official power for personal gain? My understanding is that, as a rule at least, Gypsies prefer to live on the fringes of society, which would make corruption rather difficult. Okay, it could exist within their internal power structures (and I'd be surprised if is didn't, why should they be the only ones without it?), but that wouldn't seem like something that would count against them in the eyes of outsiders.
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I'm not saying that corruption is something specific to the gypsies. In fact the prosecutor in the article was corrupt and he was austrian (?). The problem is that for them it's just something so usual for them in their interactions with other societies (whether it works or not).
The gypsy train of thought is something like this: OK, so I've got to solve a problem: Can I intimidate the dude? I'll just threaten him and his family with my hundreds of relatives. Can I blackmail him somehow? Can I steal somethin
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Except that, a couple of millenia ago, when the Roman empire invaded these places and wiped the floor with the local Thracians, a lot of Romans settled here - so many in fact, that the old Thracian language was lost forever save for a few words. People in these parts were Romans speaking latin.
Having said that, I personally think the country's name is silly, but they needed a name for the two united Romanian countries in the mid 19th century (Moldavia and Valahia). I think it was also a statement against th
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Also, it pains me that they call those fortune tellers Romanian since they're actually gypsies. This is a huge problem for us, the gypsies go in other countries, pull shit like this and worse (stealing, beating people up) and then they say they're Romanian.
They come here in the summers, panhandling. Actually, what they say is they are persecuted by the majority romanians.
Everyone thinks Romania is a gypsy country or something.
Well, you seem to have a fairly large minority of them.
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When in Romania, do as the Romanians do...
http://romania-on-line.net/halloffame/ [romania-on-line.net]
http://www.romaniatourism.com/main-attractions.html [romaniatourism.com]
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Dude, forget it. Apparently the US people were told to believe that pretty much all of Europe was left in the middle ages and only they had some semblance of electricity.
No kidding, at my first trip over I was asked whether I know how to operate a toaster. And that was AFTER they contacted me via internet and email...
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I did mention their ethnicity but it was apparently censored from the final post. Strange, as it's also in the article, and the pictures in it. Still, the first thing you notice upon entering Romania is that there are gipsies everywhere, and not even the somewhat settled ones but wandering nomadic tribes, beggar mafias, child labour etc. Many are sick, and from what I could tell there are many that starve. It can be argued whose fault it is, but from the eye of an outsider it certainly gives the place a cer
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Worse than that, everyone thinks all gypsies are Romanian! Poor gypsies... :)
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