And even funnier - search for "Why is Microsoft Windows so expensive?" [bing.com] and the fifth result is a slashdot article entitled: "Why is OSS Commercial Software So Expensive?"!
I assume the search algorithm would replace the words Microsoft and Windows with something generic like Software and Operating System.
When there are more hits for Google and Evil then there could be reasons to rank them high.
None the less, such results should come after a (near) perfect match.
well, it does *now*, everyone's started linking to it in their "why is Bing so biased", and "Bing is rubbish", and "Why Bing isn't biased after all, honest, no really" blog articles.
No, Bing links to a Yahoo answers page in which the actually text of the article contains the search terms several times("Windows" once, "Mac" once, "expensive" once, and Microsoft" twice). The article google returns, while having the same title, is a techradar.com article that doesn't mention windows. The Google results article [techradar.com] and the Bing results article. [yahoo.com] YMMV
Have you analyzed the meta tags, picture alts and context of the site itself? If results were as easy as counting words, everyone would have a search engine.
"Looking out of the windows of the expensive Manhattan apartment..." satisfies the query results and seems like MS is deflecting results. The problem is compounded by MS using common nouns like "Windows" or "explorer" or "server" or "word" or "works" for their product names. I search for results on "sql server" and it brings up Oracle's SQL server and the Postgres SQL server and Sybase and all of the others. "Why is SQL Server expensive" could come up with any number of rival software companies simply du
Well, but I had an interesting accident. I accidentally double clicked my middle mouse button, and searched for: Why is Windows so eWhy is Windows so expensive?xpensive?
I got the "Why are Macs so expensive" as the second result. Probably that just means that Google is smarter than Bing. When you ask it right, with an English sentence, they know that result is irrelevant. When you ask the same with a bunch of keywords mixed with garbage, they don't filter, and give you that result.
I wouldn't attribute _that_ to malice.
Don't get me wrong, I know MS does all the awful things they can in order to market their stuff, and that their astroturfing might kill sites like this. Just in this case, I think it's just an example of Google being better than Bing, and not result doctoring. It's too easy to spot to be intentional.
I don't know that it is specifically skewed though.. searching on: Windows is expensive... gives a lot of results that are negative on windows... I think that the other terms in the context are being compared... "why is" gets dropped out of context, or used literally. "Windows" or "Microsoft Windows" gets injected as an Operating System, and "so expensive" gets injected with expensive/cheap/inexpensive/pricey results, ie those that have a relation to price... so the results are those concerning expensi
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Thursday August 06, 2009 @11:29AM (#28972875)
And even funnier - search for "Why is Microsoft Windows so expensive?" [bing.com] and the fifth result is a slashdot article entitled: "Why is OSS Commercial Software So Expensive?"!
But it's not a search engine, it's a decision engine! It's obviously deciding that Macs and Linux are more expensive than Windows, and tuning the results appropriately!
I just want accurate results from a search engine.
Then don't use Microsoft's search engine. Given their stellar track record with designing an operating system, an office suite, a web browser, etc, did you really think that their search engine would be well-designed?
What about accuracy in grammar? If you could care less, then you must care about it a little bit. How do we take you seriously when you can't even master a simple phrase?
And even funnier - search for "Why is Microsoft Windows so expensive?" and the fifth result is a slashdot article entitled: "Why is OSS Commercial Software So Expensive?"!
If you leave out the word "Microsoft" [bing.com] from that search the top ten list includes five criticisms of Macs being expensive, one complaint about vinyl windows being expensive, some griping about windows hosting providers, games and OSS products being expensive and finally my favorite: "Why fish is so expensive!".
The surprise isn't that Microsoft is doing it, but rather that cio.com is the one calling them on it--a site aimed at upper management. This isn't fanboy-complaining, but business-complaining, something that will hit acceptance of Bing in the corporate environment.
The surprise isn't that Microsoft is doing it, but rather that cio.com is the one calling them on it--a site aimed at upper management. This isn't fanboy-complaining, but business-complaining, something that will hit acceptance of Bing in the corporate environment.
The surprise isn't that Microsoft is doing it, but rather that cio.com is the one calling them on it--a site aimed at upper management. This isn't fanboy-complaining, but business-complaining, something that will hit acceptance of Bing in the corporate environment.
Definitely, since "Nobody ever got fired for specifying Microsoft", as the old saw goes.
Of course, this was before the big financial meltdown, so things might be a bit different now...
No not surprised but it is funny that they think this even helps their cause even slightly. It's as though they think if someone is searching for that specific term then not returning results related to it will make them think - 'O windows can't be so expensive because the interweb says so!'
Who searches for "why is Windows so expensive" other than people who are religiously anti-Microsoft anyway? Can they offer some examples of skewed search results that somebody outside of Slashdot will care about?
Try "Why is windows crashing so often". Same hilarity.
And this is something I would have a reason to search about. Or do you want to imply that anybody outside of Slashdot would never be critical of microsoft?
Microsoft always do this with search engines. They seem to start from the assumption that any query represents a user problem, for which there exists a Microsoft based solution. Looked at that way, a search engine becomes an exercise in derailing the users interest, and redirecting into more profitable channels.
It never seems to occur to them that people might be genuinely interested in results that reflect what they actually want.
And then they wonder why all their search engines fail.
Microsoft always do this with search engines. They seem to start from the assumption that any query represents a user problem, for which there exists a Microsoft based solution. Looked at that way, a search engine becomes an exercise in derailing the users interest, and redirecting into more profitable channels.
Keep in mind that any loss of profit from Bing can go directly against the company's profit as a whole, as well as the entire cost of Bing being applied to Microsoft's advertising budget. For Micro
Keep in mind that any loss of profit from Bing can go directly against the company's profit as a whole, as well as the entire cost of Bing being applied to Microsoft's advertising budget. For Microsoft, it's a win-win scenario. It's just The Next Step in its advertising campaign to maintain its market dominance.
Oh, I'm sure a win-win on one level. On the other hand, if they end up with an engine that no-one uses because they find more satisfying answers to their questions elsewhere... well, it seems a li
Microsoft always do this with search engines. They seem to start from the assumption that any query represents a user problem, for which there exists a Microsoft based solution. Looked at that way, a search engine becomes an exercise in derailing the users interest, and redirecting into more profitable channels.
There is a Microsoft based solution; it just usually involves uninstalling all their products.
There's a reason they 're calling it a decision engine, not a search engine.
In a few years, they may be able to do the following:
"Why is Windows so Expensive?" "It's not. You're thinking of Macs. Macs are expensive. Here's some reasons why."
And you know what? They'd be fucking right to do it. 99% of the time, the user is, in fact, a moron.
This is no different than Google drumming up Youtube hits or Wikipedia hits (search for any noun, Wikipedia is in the top page if there's an article on it). This is no di
"Why is Windows so Expensive?"
"It's not. You're thinking of Macs. Macs are expensive. Here's some reasons why."
And in a few more:
"Q: What is the accleration due to gravity?"
"A: Gravity is a myth - the Earth sucks! But you needn't suck with it when you buy Microsoft Flight (TM)"
Can you see how this might limit the engine's usefulness for some purposes? Can you see how user confidence may be
adversely affected? Can you see why they might go elsewhere?
Microsoft always do this with search engines. They seem to start from the assumption that any query represents a user problem, for which there exists a Microsoft based solution. Looked at that way, a search engine becomes an exercise in derailing the users interest, and redirecting into more profitable channels.
That seems like a very interesting way of looking at it. Seriously. I see it in a different way that isn't incompatible with yours, but stresses the issue differently. I'd say something like:
Microsoft has shown a consistent pattern of behavior over the years, that it isn't satisfied to produce any of their products for the revenue generated by that product. Instead they look to have every one of their products reenforce all of their other products.
Pretty much every one of their products interlock with
Microsoft always do this with search engines. They seem to start from the assumption that any query represents a user problem, for which there exists a Microsoft based solution.
Given that most people use Windows, assuming any search represents a user problem is a pretty safe bet.
How is this interesting? It sounds like an urban legend. If you've taken an MCSE exam you will know that for the most part the questions don't lend themselves to being looked at that way. I'm not saying I like the MCSE exams, I think that it is an almost entirely worthless certification. But I do not for a second believe the above anecdote but am not surprised that it got mod'd Interesting on/..
It's impressive that he was able to replicate the job that had been done by Microsoft's decision makers without the need for consulting any usage statistics, market analysis, etc. Maybe if they sack the decision makers in order to take this guy in, they'll be able to save on the data gathering step and jump straight to the conclusions!
Actually, I'm surprised at how mild it is. The link is a link to a web board, and someone does a pretty good job of defending/justifying the higher price of Macs, and another is very pro-linux as an alternative to Windows/Mac.
"Why does vista", gets only one suggestion "Why does vista suck".
Because it leads to distrust. Distrust leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much distrust in you.
But seriously, it's not just the first link, the entire page is links to articles of why Macs are so expensive. Do that in google and you get Why Windows Vista and Office 2007 are so Expensive [wordpress.com]. And you could argue "Yeah but a Microsoft search engine is not going to say their own software is expensive", but if you google why does google suck [google.com] and you get wh [whydoesgooglesuck.com]
There's a side by side comparison site - Google and Bing in two frames [blackdog.ie]. Just type in something inflammatory like "OS X beats Windows 7" without the quotes and see what comes up. Google's first is "Mac OS X 10.6 Beats Windows 7 in Amazon Pre-Orders". Bing's first is "Windows 7 Better than Mac OS X Leopard in Security, Says Microsoft COO".
Really. They don't advertise it as a search engine, it's a "decision engine" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egwT1KjG6tM [youtube.com]. So when you are using it, they decide what you should see based on what you type in. And, yes, it's no surprise at all they would favor themselves... Interestingly the top search results for "linux netbook" don't seem to be tainted at all. I did notice while typing "linux" in one of the search suggestions was Linux XP... and the top of that result did not seem to be tainted either, what's
Why would you advertise Internet Explorer anywhere? It's a broken piece of shit, and if you were able to run Internet Explorer, you'd already have it as it's pre-installed.
Advertising and skewing search results are two VERY different things. Altering search results to your corporate whims makes your search engine useless IMHO, and the opinions of a lot of other people. That's what made Google so popular initially, their blind algorithm gave the 'best' results regardless of source or view.
I work for a large bank... suddenly, our mandated IE 7, which used to allow you to add other search engines, now only allows Bing. (in the search bar.. it isn't like they've blocked Google). But it is still quite annoying, and things like this don't get deployed by accident to thousands of employees.
Does Google advertise Internet Explorer on Youtube?
Either you're horribly offtopic or you're trying to imply that MS has a right to secretly manipulate search results in their favor (and not in the users favor such as e.g. prioritizing results from the country of which the user resides, google.es provides more spanish results and google.se provides more swedish results). If the latter then your question is irrelevant since this is not about advertisement at all. So either way you fail horribly.
I think MS and Google are trying to monetize their services. The skewed results are most likely the result of this and unlikely the work of the evil MS. BTW: Thanks to the article, I now know why Macs are so expensive: "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk, and our DNA won't let us ship that." -Steve Jobs.
MS has a right to return whatever results they want with Bing. It's a free service. They have no obligation to serve you impartially. Get over your unfounded sense of entitlement.
Not necessarily. Lying about the product that you're offering your customer is generally considered fraud, which is illegal in many countries. The common expectation (the opinions of technology-oriented people like us aren't considered common) is that a search engine gives results in some generally unbiased manner, and particularly does not hide results that might be critical of the owner of the search engine.
Fraud requires money or property of value to change hands. Its perfectly legal to lie through your teeth, so long as it isn't to get money from someone.
Yeah, that's possible, but I would hope that the FTC and/or DoJ wouldn't buy that argument if it actually did come down to a fraud investigation. Dunno if I'd be surprised if that argument worked, but I'd definitely be disappointed.
I wish I had the link for you but when Google decided to stop supporting IE6 for YouTube, the page that stated such had links/icons to IE8, Firefox and then Chrome in that order. It really surprised me.
by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Thursday August 06, 2009 @11:06AM (#28972467)
Does Google advertise Internet Explorer on Youtube?
Advertising is different -- in advertising, there is no implied agreement that the text should be objective and informative. Advertisements do not pose as something, er, academic, and are often headed by a text declaring ADVERTISEMENT.
A search engine, on the other hand, is expected (implicitly trusted) to be fair (re: Google China and other censorship cases). As such, in advertising Chrome, Google doesn't break an implied agreement between parties, the way Bing does. Microsoft's engine is not legally suspect, certainly, but it's also not playing it all out honest.
That's not analogous at all. Bing is a search engine which is apparently tooled to boost Microsoft's agenda to the detriment of search result quality. Youtube is a website that is merely owned by a company that makes a web browser.
Does Google advertise Internet Explorer on Youtube?
There are, likely, some videos promoting IE among all the crap in Youtube, but a closer match would be Google itself, where searching for the phrase "benefits of using Internet Explorer" and hitting "I'm feeling lucky" leads you to this [microsoft.com], as expected, instead of Chrome's download page.
You're comparing, um, apples to oranges. Try entering "why does Google suck" into Google. The very first link is to http://www.whydoesgooglesuck.com/ [whydoesgooglesuck.com]. Comparable behavior on Google's part to Microsoft would be if instead, you get suggestions on why Yahoo sucks.
This article is garbage... put the same query on the google search and almost the same results come up. Including Why are Macs so Expensive...
You are either delusional or full of crap. They are nothing alike.
This is the result from Bing:
News about Why is Windows so expensive
Why are Mac's So Expensive? - Yahoo! Answers
why so expensive?. - Games for Windows Live
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest...
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest? Find answers to this and many other questions on Trulia Voices, a community for you to find and share local...
Why are windows hosting providers so expensive? - Community Server
Community Server is the platform that powers rich blogging, discussions, and sharing web communities.
Why are Macbooks so expensive? - Yahoo! Answers
WikiAnswers - Why are Apple Macs so expensive
Apple and Mac question: Why are Apple Macs so expensive? Macs are no more expensive... can save money by buying more advanced parts for a windows computer. Also, they are expensive...
Windows Embedded Blog : Why is OSS Commercial Software So Expensive?
Why are Macs so expensive? - TechSpot Troubleshooting
Why are Macs so expensive?
Why are Macs so expensive? techradar.com â" There are some good reasons not to choose a Mac when you... If I feel like Sony are charging too much for a Laptop with Windows I can get a...
Why fish is so expensive! - Windows Live
This is the result from Google:
Why Windows Vista and Office 2007 are so Expensive  The Firefox...
Is Windows getting more expensive? - CNET News
Windows 7 to be âoemore expensiveâ than Vista, XP
Writing on the Wall: Why Windows is so expensive
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest...
Omfg Vista Is so Expensive - Windows Vista and Windows 7
Why are HDTV wall mounts so expensive?
Why is the IBM thinkpad x301 laptop so expensive with mediocre...
Why are Macs so expensive? | News | TechRadar UK
Gizmodo - The World's Most Expensive Copy of Windows XP - XP
I am not sure how you got modded +5 insightful, but the only article in common is the "Why are Macs so expensive?" from TechRadar. Microsoft's results are obviously significantly skewed. I would encourage you to "get the facts"!
Say what? Are you trying to say this is subjective? I'm pretty sure that results about what Windows is more expensive is objectively superior to results about why Macs are so expensive given the search query. Isn't the whole point of search engines, objectively, to return what was queried for?
I was stuck on IE and trying to download MPlayer for Windows.... Out of habit from Firefox, I naively used the Bing-box to search. All the results I got were for Windows Media Player -- and those pages don't even contain the word "MPlayer" at all. Fortunately, I realized that I knew MPlayer's address by memory anyway, so found it through the home page.
I put the query on Bing.com and the Mac one was the 7th link... And on google it's the 8th... I don't see any validity to this...
Since it's always possible you're right, I put the query on Bing.com and the Mac on was first just like everyone else is seeing. On google it is in fact 8th.
I see no validity to your post. As in, I think you're full of shit.
Please note whether you're putting quotes around the phrase!
As of this writing:
Bing without quotes returns the Mac one as the 1st link. Google without quotes returns it 8th (8th is not obviously implausible - it is Yahoo Answers, thus may well have enough incoming links to outweigh the one keyword appearing a bit further away from the others).
With quotes added, both return several links to this story (here and elsewhere), and the Mac one isn't in the top 10 at all.
I just tried it and the #1 result for why is Microsoft Windows so expensive is why are Macs so expensive on Yahoo answers. On google, there is the Mac expensive result 8th.
And does anyone even remember that Google gives you more popular choices to your search string first, after a while?
This is only relevant if MS threw out all of the data they were using to run the search engine before it was Bing
However, MSN Search from 1998 became Windows Live Search, which became Live Search, which became Bing. Only the Name is New.
Besides this is the same company that is artificially inflating it's Market Share numbers for Bing by spamming web sites with fake search referrals. [the-art-of-web.com] Is it really any surprise that they'd manipulate search results for their own advantage as well?
This isn't malicious. It's just that Macs are more expensive than Windows.
If you search for "why is Windows expensive," you should get results showing pages that contain that text or something similar. Whether or not Windows is actually expensive is beside the point.
A search engine is there to show you pages that resemble what you typed. It is not there to argue with you, even if you're wrong. You can search Google for "why Obama is a cat" and it will at least try to find pages that resemble your query.
It's supposed to show you which pages resemble what you typed. Yes, and 'Macs are more expensive than Windows' does resemble 'Windows is more expensive than Macs' . They are basically a permutation of the words. If there are many pages saying Macs are more expensive than Windows and none saying the opposite ( because it's actually true that Macs are more expensive than Windows ) then they SHOULD pop up in response to the query.
Now you have to write limericks on bathroom stalls again. The only difference is the size and origin of your audience, but that may depend on the bathroom.
Parallel lines never meet, unless you bend one or both of them.
And? (Score:5, Insightful)
Surprised, why?
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Re:And? (Score:5, Interesting)
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When there are more hits for Google and Evil then there could be reasons to rank them high.
None the less, such results should come after a (near) perfect match.
Re:And? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:And? (Score:4, Informative)
well, it does *now*, everyone's started linking to it in their "why is Bing so biased", and "Bing is rubbish", and "Why Bing isn't biased after all, honest, no really" blog articles.
Re:And? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:And? context is not considered (Score:3, Informative)
"Looking out of the windows of the expensive Manhattan apartment..." satisfies the query results and seems like MS is deflecting results. The problem is compounded by MS using common nouns like "Windows" or "explorer" or "server" or "word" or "works" for their product names. I search for results on "sql server" and it brings up Oracle's SQL server and the Postgres SQL server and Sybase and all of the others. "Why is SQL Server expensive" could come up with any number of rival software companies simply du
Re: (Score:2)
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Accidentally moderated this offtopic - stupid scroll wheel on the mouse.
Hmmmm..... I don't suppose that's a Microsoft mouse, it it? Interesting . . .
Re:And? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, but I had an interesting accident.
I accidentally double clicked my middle mouse button, and searched for: Why is Windows so eWhy is Windows so expensive?xpensive?
I got the "Why are Macs so expensive" as the second result.
Probably that just means that Google is smarter than Bing. When you ask it right, with an English sentence, they know that result is irrelevant. When you ask the same with a bunch of keywords mixed with garbage, they don't filter, and give you that result.
I wouldn't attribute _that_ to malice.
Don't get me wrong, I know MS does all the awful things they can in order to market their stuff, and that their astroturfing might kill sites like this. Just in this case, I think it's just an example of Google being better than Bing, and not result doctoring. It's too easy to spot to be intentional.
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Not only that, but in Bing, "Why is Linux so expensive?" also shows Macs at the top.
This is pretty much what you get with unquoted searches.
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I don't know that it is specifically skewed though.. searching on: Windows is expensive ... gives a lot of results that are negative on windows... I think that the other terms in the context are being compared... "why is" gets dropped out of context, or used literally. "Windows" or "Microsoft Windows" gets injected as an Operating System, and "so expensive" gets injected with expensive/cheap/inexpensive/pricey results, ie those that have a relation to price... so the results are those concerning expensi
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Which either means that this is the only thing Bing ever cares about or its data source is shorter than my list of groceries.
Re:And? (Score:5, Funny)
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:-)
Re:And? (Score:5, Interesting)
And even funnier - search for "Why is Microsoft Windows so expensive?" [bing.com] and the fifth result is a slashdot article entitled: "Why is OSS Commercial Software So Expensive?"!
Try this : why are macs so awesome?
Top 2:
ALL RESULTS
1-9 of 1,370,000 resultsÂ
1) Why Macs Suck - Funny videos
2) Why are Macs so crap at gaming?
Re:And? (Score:4, Funny)
Also in the results: "Why do macs cost so much" etc....what the hell has cost got to do with it now?
Re:And? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's even more amusing is the first result:
Why are Mac's So Expensive? - Yahoo! Answers
I could care less about whether or not macs are more expensive, or about commercial OSS prices.
I just want accurate results from a search engine.
Re:And? (Score:5, Insightful)
But it's not a search engine, it's a decision engine! It's obviously deciding that Macs and Linux are more expensive than Windows, and tuning the results appropriately!
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I just want accurate results from a search engine.
Then don't use Microsoft's search engine. Given their stellar track record with designing an operating system, an office suite, a web browser, etc, did you really think that their search engine would be well-designed?
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What about accuracy in grammar? If you could care less, then you must care about it a little bit. How do we take you seriously when you can't even master a simple phrase?
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And even funnier - search for "Why is Microsoft Windows so expensive?" and the fifth result is a slashdot article entitled: "Why is OSS Commercial Software So Expensive?"!
If you leave out the word "Microsoft" [bing.com] from that search the top ten list includes five criticisms of Macs being expensive, one complaint about vinyl windows being expensive, some griping about windows hosting providers, games and OSS products being expensive and finally my favorite: "Why fish is so expensive!".
Re:And? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And? (Score:5, Funny)
The surprise isn't that Microsoft is doing it, but rather that cio.com is the one calling them on it--a site aimed at upper management. This isn't fanboy-complaining, but business-complaining, something that will hit acceptance of Bing in the corporate environment.
Bingo
Re:And? (Score:5, Funny)
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Bing is a better way to google. You can google just about anything with it. You can even google Google!
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Finally, I see why they named it Bing!
Bing Is Not Google
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Definitely, since "Nobody ever got fired for specifying Microsoft", as the old saw goes.
Of course, this was before the big financial meltdown, so things might be a bit different now...
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but is this really any different than the google "I feel lucky" result for "french military victories"?
hawk
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Well, basically, that is how Korea is run.
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I just did and would you believe it but (Score:2)
it found stories on "How to fix Windows crashes in minutes" (In seconds: "Pull the plug" :-) and "Why is my FireFox crashing so often?"
Oh yeah, those are trustworthy results... :-)
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I know many people who only run Windows who do nothing but complain about it. You don't have to be a happy customer to be a customer.
Re:And? (Score:5, Interesting)
Surprised it took them this long, perhaps.
Microsoft always do this with search engines. They seem to start from the assumption that any query represents a user problem, for which there exists a Microsoft based solution. Looked at that way, a search engine becomes an exercise in derailing the users interest, and redirecting into more profitable channels.
It never seems to occur to them that people might be genuinely interested in results that reflect what they actually want.
And then they wonder why all their search engines fail.
Re:And? (Score:5, Funny)
Obviously it decided that OSX is too expensive.
Re:And? (Score:5, Insightful)
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But it isn't a search engine, it is the world's first decision enigne. Obviously it decided that OSX is too expensive.
Bing: You search, we decide.
Re:And? (Score:5, Insightful)
It never seems to occur to them that people might be genuinely interested in results that reflect what they actually want.
Sounds like the work of a bad programmer. Who else would take a question from a user and assume they know what the user really wants?
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Who else? How about almost anyone in marketing? "The public wants what the public gets" and all that jazz?
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Keep in mind that any loss of profit from Bing can go directly against the company's profit as a whole, as well as the entire cost of Bing being applied to Microsoft's advertising budget. For Micro
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Oh, I'm sure a win-win on one level. On the other hand, if they end up with an engine that no-one uses because they find more satisfying answers to their questions elsewhere ... well, it seems a li
Re:And? (Score:4, Insightful)
Surprised it took them this long, perhaps.
Microsoft always do this with search engines. They seem to start from the assumption that any query represents a user problem, for which there exists a Microsoft based solution. Looked at that way, a search engine becomes an exercise in derailing the users interest, and redirecting into more profitable channels.
There is a Microsoft based solution; it just usually involves uninstalling all their products.
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There's a reason they 're calling it a decision engine, not a search engine.
In a few years, they may be able to do the following:
"Why is Windows so Expensive?"
"It's not. You're thinking of Macs. Macs are expensive. Here's some reasons why."
And you know what?
They'd be fucking right to do it.
99% of the time, the user is, in fact, a moron.
This is no different than Google drumming up Youtube hits or Wikipedia hits (search for any noun, Wikipedia is in the top page if there's an article on it). This is no di
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This is no different than Google drumming up... Wikipedia hits
Did I miss the news about Google buying Wikipedia?
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And in a few more:
"Q: What is the accleration due to gravity?"
"A: Gravity is a myth - the Earth sucks! But you needn't suck with it when you buy Microsoft Flight (TM)"
Can you see how this might limit the engine's usefulness for some purposes? Can you see how user confidence may be adversely affected? Can you see why they might go elsewhere?
T
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... while we wonder how they manage to make so much money.
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Microsoft always do this with search engines. They seem to start from the assumption that any query represents a user problem, for which there exists a Microsoft based solution. Looked at that way, a search engine becomes an exercise in derailing the users interest, and redirecting into more profitable channels.
That seems like a very interesting way of looking at it. Seriously. I see it in a different way that isn't incompatible with yours, but stresses the issue differently. I'd say something like:
Microsoft has shown a consistent pattern of behavior over the years, that it isn't satisfied to produce any of their products for the revenue generated by that product. Instead they look to have every one of their products reenforce all of their other products.
Pretty much every one of their products interlock with
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Given that most people use Windows, assuming any search represents a user problem is a pretty safe bet.
Brett
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>any query represents a user problem, for which there exists a Microsoft based solution
When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail.
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How is this interesting? It sounds like an urban legend. If you've taken an MCSE exam you will know that for the most part the questions don't lend themselves to being looked at that way. I'm not saying I like the MCSE exams, I think that it is an almost entirely worthless certification. But I do not for a second believe the above anecdote but am not surprised that it got mod'd Interesting on /..
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Re:And? (Score:5, Funny)
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The real WTF is: why this story wasn't posted by kdawson?
My first thoughts too :)
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Because Twitter is down [techcrunch.com] and he's still recovering.
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Uh, wrong site...
Over here it's more like:
Posted by kdawson? Mod -5 Troll!!!
-dZ.
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Surprised, why?
Reality has a well-known anti-Microsoft bias, so any pro-Microsoft results are clearly due to tampering.
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Actually, I'm surprised at how mild it is. The link is a link to a web board, and someone does a pretty good job of defending/justifying the higher price of Macs, and another is very pro-linux as an alternative to Windows/Mac.
"Why does vista", gets only one suggestion
"Why does vista suck".
That seems to work fine.
Re:And? (Really!) (Score:2)
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Because it leads to distrust. Distrust leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much distrust in you.
But seriously, it's not just the first link, the entire page is links to articles of why Macs are so expensive. Do that in google and you get Why Windows Vista and Office 2007 are so Expensive [wordpress.com]. And you could argue "Yeah but a Microsoft search engine is not going to say their own software is expensive", but if you google why does google suck [google.com] and you get wh [whydoesgooglesuck.com]
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"why windows is expensive" returns completely different results - not particularly pro-Microsoft.
Bing is only getting popular because of IE8's upgrade. So far, I don't see a reason to change but I like the fact the Google will need to stay sharp.
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There's a side by side comparison site - Google and Bing in two frames [blackdog.ie]. Just type in something inflammatory like "OS X beats Windows 7" without the quotes and see what comes up. Google's first is "Mac OS X 10.6 Beats Windows 7 in Amazon Pre-Orders". Bing's first is "Windows 7 Better than Mac OS X Leopard in Security, Says Microsoft COO".
That's not what I asked for.
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Surprised, why?
Really. They don't advertise it as a search engine, it's a "decision engine" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egwT1KjG6tM [youtube.com].
So when you are using it, they decide what you should see based on what you type in. And, yes, it's no surprise at all they would favor themselves... Interestingly the top search results for "linux netbook" don't seem to be tainted at all. I did notice while typing "linux" in one of the search suggestions was Linux XP... and the top of that result did not seem to be tainted either, what's
At least... (Score:2)
... they're [bing.com] not as obvious going about it as they were in the past. [slashdot.org]
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Re:And? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And? (Score:4, Insightful)
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There are other "decisions" afoot.... (Score:4, Interesting)
I work for a large bank... suddenly, our mandated IE 7, which used to allow you to add other search engines, now only allows Bing. (in the search bar.. it isn't like they've blocked Google). But it is still quite annoying, and things like this don't get deployed by accident to thousands of employees.
Re:And? (Score:5, Insightful)
Does Google advertise Internet Explorer on Youtube?
Either you're horribly offtopic or you're trying to imply that MS has a right to secretly manipulate search results in their favor (and not in the users favor such as e.g. prioritizing results from the country of which the user resides, google.es provides more spanish results and google.se provides more swedish results). If the latter then your question is irrelevant since this is not about advertisement at all. So either way you fail horribly.
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I think MS and Google are trying to monetize their services. The skewed results are most likely the result of this and unlikely the work of the evil MS.
BTW: Thanks to the article, I now know why Macs are so expensive: "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk, and our DNA won't let us ship that." -Steve Jobs.
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MS has a right to return whatever results they want with Bing. It's a free service. They have no obligation to serve you impartially. Get over your unfounded sense of entitlement.
Not necessarily. Lying about the product that you're offering your customer is generally considered fraud, which is illegal in many countries. The common expectation (the opinions of technology-oriented people like us aren't considered common) is that a search engine gives results in some generally unbiased manner, and particularly does not hide results that might be critical of the owner of the search engine.
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Fraud requires money or property of value to change hands. Its perfectly legal to lie through your teeth, so long as it isn't to get money from someone.
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Let's hope they never advertise guns to people using IE6. Our hospitals would collapse under an avalanche of patients with holes in their feet.
Re:And? (Score:4, Insightful)
Does Google advertise Internet Explorer on Youtube?
Advertising is different -- in advertising, there is no implied agreement that the text should be objective and informative. Advertisements do not pose as something, er, academic, and are often headed by a text declaring ADVERTISEMENT.
A search engine, on the other hand, is expected (implicitly trusted) to be fair (re: Google China and other censorship cases). As such, in advertising Chrome, Google doesn't break an implied agreement between parties, the way Bing does. Microsoft's engine is not legally suspect, certainly, but it's also not playing it all out honest.
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That's not analogous at all. Bing is a search engine which is apparently tooled to boost Microsoft's agenda to the detriment of search result quality. Youtube is a website that is merely owned by a company that makes a web browser.
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Does Google advertise Internet Explorer on Youtube?
There are, likely, some videos promoting IE among all the crap in Youtube, but a closer match would be Google itself, where searching for the phrase "benefits of using Internet Explorer" and hitting "I'm feeling lucky" leads you to this [microsoft.com], as expected, instead of Chrome's download page.
So no, not the same thing at all.
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You're comparing, um, apples to oranges. Try entering "why does Google suck" into Google. The very first link is to http://www.whydoesgooglesuck.com/ [whydoesgooglesuck.com]. Comparable behavior on Google's part to Microsoft would be if instead, you get suggestions on why Yahoo sucks.
Re:And? (Score:5, Informative)
This article is garbage ... put the same query on the google search and almost the same results come up. Including Why are Macs so Expensive...
You are either delusional or full of crap. They are nothing alike.
... ... ... can save money by buying more advanced parts for a windows computer. Also, they are expensive ... ... If I feel like Sony are charging too much for a Laptop with Windows I can get a ...
... ... ...
This is the result from Bing:
News about Why is Windows so expensive
Why are Mac's So Expensive? - Yahoo! Answers
why so expensive?. - Games for Windows Live
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest? Find answers to this and many other questions on Trulia Voices, a community for you to find and share local
Why are windows hosting providers so expensive? - Community Server
Community Server is the platform that powers rich blogging, discussions, and sharing web communities.
Why are Macbooks so expensive? - Yahoo! Answers
WikiAnswers - Why are Apple Macs so expensive
Apple and Mac question: Why are Apple Macs so expensive? Macs are no more expensive
Windows Embedded Blog : Why is OSS Commercial Software So Expensive?
Why are Macs so expensive? - TechSpot Troubleshooting
Why are Macs so expensive?
Why are Macs so expensive? techradar.com â" There are some good reasons not to choose a Mac when you
Why fish is so expensive! - Windows Live
This is the result from Google:
Why Windows Vista and Office 2007 are so Expensive  The Firefox
Is Windows getting more expensive? - CNET News
Windows 7 to be âoemore expensiveâ than Vista, XP
Writing on the Wall: Why Windows is so expensive
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest
Omfg Vista Is so Expensive - Windows Vista and Windows 7
Why are HDTV wall mounts so expensive?
Why is the IBM thinkpad x301 laptop so expensive with mediocre
Why are Macs so expensive? | News | TechRadar UK
Gizmodo - The World's Most Expensive Copy of Windows XP - XP
I am not sure how you got modded +5 insightful, but the only article in common is the "Why are Macs so expensive?" from TechRadar. Microsoft's results are obviously significantly skewed. I would encourage you to "get the facts"!
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Not really. Ignoring all "news" results, searching Bing for "why is windows so expensive" on the first page I get:
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I put the query on Bing.com and the Mac one was the 7th link... And on google it's the 8th ... I don't see any validity to this ...
Since it's always possible you're right, I put the query on Bing.com and the Mac on was first just like everyone else is seeing. On google it is in fact 8th.
I see no validity to your post. As in, I think you're full of shit.
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As of this writing:
Bing without quotes returns the Mac one as the 1st link. Google without quotes returns it 8th (8th is not obviously implausible - it is Yahoo Answers, thus may well have enough incoming links to outweigh the one keyword appearing a bit further away from the others).
With quotes added, both return several links to this story (here and elsewhere), and the Mac one isn't in the top 10 at all.
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And does anyone even remember that Google gives you more popular choices to your search string first, after a while?
This is only relevant if MS threw out all of the data they were using to run the search engine before it was Bing
However, MSN Search from 1998 became Windows Live Search, which became Live Search, which became Bing. Only the Name is New.
Besides this is the same company that is artificially inflating it's Market Share numbers for Bing by spamming web sites with fake search referrals. [the-art-of-web.com] Is it really any surprise that they'd manipulate search results for their own advantage as well?
They can do what they w
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If you search for "why is Windows expensive," you should get results showing pages that contain that text or something similar. Whether or not Windows is actually expensive is beside the point.
A search engine is there to show you pages that resemble what you typed. It is not there to argue with you, even if you're wrong. You can search Google for "why Obama is a cat" and it will at least try to find pages that resemble your query.
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They are a business that owns a search engine, so #$@#$ what if they bias search results, what else would you expect from any business.
Google doesn't. [google.com]
If Google, a business whose entire existence depends on its search engine, can give honest query results, what's Microsoft's excuse?
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Now you have to write limericks on bathroom stalls again. The only difference is the size and origin of your audience, but that may depend on the bathroom.