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Bing To Become Default iPhone Search? 463

Posted by samzenpus
from the strange-bedfellows dept.
snydeq writes "BusinessWeek reports ongoing talks between Apple and Microsoft to make Bing the default search engine for the iPhone. The discussions reflect an accelerating rivalry between Apple and Google, one that some believe will be the most important rivalry in tech in the years to come. 'Apple and Google know the other is their primary enemy,' says one person familiar with Apple's thinking. 'Microsoft is now a pawn in that battle.'"
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Bing To Become Default iPhone Search?

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  • Microsoft a pawn? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by timmarhy (659436) on Wednesday January 20, 2010 @11:48PM (#30842316)
    MS is hardly anyones fool. what is far more likely is that MS will play the 2 off against each other. Apple's piss weak market share makes them less of a threat, so initally siding wiht them is logical. Next i bet you'll see MS leverage this into a windows mobile version of the iphone. mark my words children....
  • Re:Big Battle (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kregg (1619907) on Wednesday January 20, 2010 @11:49PM (#30842322)
    the thought of using bing makes me cringe
  • by stimpleton (732392) on Wednesday January 20, 2010 @11:53PM (#30842352)
    As the old saying goes...Adversity makes strange bed fellows.
  • by Lemmy Caution (8378) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @12:01AM (#30842426) Homepage

    Microsoft saved Apple. [wired.com] Microsoft kept Apple viable in the workplace by continuing to release Office for Mac (indeed, Office on a Mac is much nicer than Office on a PC.) Apple produces great hardware to run Microsoft software, even their OS, on. And while Jobs is an avid competitor, I seriously doubt that the has any animus for Microsoft.

    Google, on the other hand, is threatening Apple in its biggest growth market: mobile devices. Google offers an alternate ecosystem to Apple, to .Mac and now iDisk. Google is encroaching, encroaching, encroaching more into Apple territory than Microsoft is. Apple probably feels betrayed by Google (and vice versa, after the rejection of Google's app in the AppStore.)

    All three are competing with each other in various sectors, but I think if there is bad blood anywhere right now, it is between Apple and Google.

  • by Lemmy Caution (8378) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @12:03AM (#30842436) Homepage

    You are delusional. Most users do not switch their defaults. Most users do not hear about these kinds of decisions at all. And Google is an ad company. Not have Google be the default engine isn't a shot-across-the-bow, it's pissing in their Corn Flakes.

  • by jhol13 (1087781) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @12:08AM (#30842480)

    Goolge has the simplicity aspect right.

    I *really* hate Google for destroying the right-click copy-link-location. Maybe I'll change to Bing, it does not do that.

  • by WindBourne (631190) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @12:10AM (#30842504) Journal
    Apple should realize that once MS comes on strong with Bing in this space, that they will use it on their phone. The issue here is that MS is composed of total idiots, HOWEVER, they like to throw money and their already established monopolies at other ones. As such, MS will go after Apple's iphone. And they will slowly eat away at them. OTH, if Apple either works with a different company, or even with Google, they will still remain the leader.
  • Re:Big Battle (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Totenglocke (1291680) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @12:11AM (#30842508)

    MS has actually made their search engine better than Google

    ........really? You're the first person I've seen who likes Bing. Anytime I've used it, instead of actual useful links that I get with Google, I mainly get stupid ads for MS products instead.

  • by lorenlal (164133) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @12:17AM (#30842546)

    The other thing that bothers me about the marketshare numbers is that Microsoft is working the Bing advertising to a point where I can't avoid seeing it. I also notice that somehow Bing seems to be popping up in places that I didn't even think they could. [weather.com] Notice what's powering the map on that page?

    Add in the $500 Bing agreement with Verizon. [slashdot.org]

    Add in the fact that Bing is really doing well taking share from their partner. [tomshardware.com]

    To me, it boils down to this: I don't trust many people.

    I hardly trust Google, but I have yet to see them engage in practices where they abuse their market share. Please correct me if I've missed something.

    I know what Microsoft does when they dominate market share... And right now, this product is gaining market share because MS is pouring money into it at a pace that they can't intend on maintaining. I don't know what their plan is, but I have a feeling that this one's not following the "embrace" part of their normal business model. I can't wait to see what they do once Bing closes in on 30% (assuming it keeps gaining). My guess is that they'll find a way to blend it with the desktop OS, and "integrate" it with the desktop search. I'm also sure that desktop search will extend to the general web.

  • by NoPantsJim (1149003) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @12:37AM (#30842680) Homepage
    Sure. The corporation with the $271.6 billion market cap is the pawn in the battle between two corps with market caps around $190 billion. That makes sense.
  • by arose (644256) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @12:47AM (#30842746)
    Has it actually ever worked that way when ads get introduced to a previously ad free service? It sure seems to gravitate to 'free money' instead of 'pass along the savings'.
  • by Lemmy Caution (8378) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @01:06AM (#30842862) Homepage

    OK, that's a fair dig, especially because I'm criticizing that idea implicitly at the beginning. But it wouldn't be a stretch to say that the senior management of Apple might be cheesed at Google...

  • by derGoldstein (1494129) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @01:32AM (#30842978) Homepage
    Ditto. Whenever I hear (usually reported somewhere) that google is pushing something, or they've added new features/options, I'm surprised even though I used it almost exclusively. This goes for youtube and google news as well. They'll occasionally throw something on one of the front pages, even though most users that are even moderately experienced will dispense with those entry/landing pages as soon as they figure out how. The same goes for Wikipedia -- if I want to find something, I'll just prefix the search term with "wikipedia", I won't actually go to wikipedia.org. I didn't know where *was* a beta interface until someone mentioned it to me (though to be fair, there's a small "try beta" link on every wikipedia page now).
  • by prockcore (543967) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @01:33AM (#30842988)

    I'm pretty positive that Steve hates Microsoft

    Yes, but he absolutely *hates* Eric Schmidt. He hates how much the iPhone is beholden to Google. Notice how Google has basically been prevented from making iPhone apps now. Why would Apple kill Google Latitude, yet allow Loopt (even use Loopt in their advertising)? Of course we now know that Apple killed Google Voice, not AT&T.

    Google Goggles, Google Navigation, even Google Sky Map... all droid-only, and I doubt it's because of Google. The only thing coming out of Google for the iPhone are web apps that Steve Jobs has no control over.

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:4, Insightful)

    by iVtec (1726212) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @01:39AM (#30843030)
    A 3% marketshare for Bing is hardly anything to get excited about. Bing is seriously terrible compared to Google. Try any other language than english and you're fucked.

    Also, Microsoft is terrible at privacy compared to Google. You may be too young to remember Google fighting off a subpoena to hand over user information, while Yahoo and Microsoft caved:

    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,39248192,00.htm [zdnet.co.uk]
    http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2006/01/19 [eff.org]

    Also, where was microsoft when Google was making a stand in China? Yup, nowhere...

    Lastly, you mention that microsoft is deleting user data within 6 months as if it's a policy used today. If you read their own announcement, what they're saying is that they'll remove IP addresses from queries after 6 months and remaining cross-session IDs after 18 months. But they plan to implement this policy a year to a year and a half from now!

    http://microsoftontheissues.com/cs/blogs/mscorp/archive/2010/01/19/microsoft-advances-search-privacy-with-bing.aspx [microsoftontheissues.com]
  • by derGoldstein (1494129) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @01:40AM (#30843032) Homepage
    Have you looked over the hacks that Google Analytics uses? You think that click tracking is an issue? They make the browser effectively "watch you back" with that stuff. If you go over the source, you'll see a nice sliding scale of technology: The first options are always basic HTML, often with deprecated tags, for old/slow machines. As you progress upwards, more and more layers of interface interaction are added, along with huge amounts of data collection. After browsing through enough of their page sources, I'm starting to think that the privacy nuts aren't as nuts as I used to think.
    If you want to try this yourself, download Firebug, and add a bunch of monitoring add-ons to it. You'll be amazed at how "chatty" google pages are.
  • calling bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tom (822) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @02:26AM (#30843208) Homepage Journal

    I'm calling bullshit on this one.

    Apple goes for "sexy" in everything it does. Tell me where Bing is sexy? It has no appeal whatsoever to anyone I know. Heck, 80% of the people I know probably don't even know what the heck it is and would guess it's a new clothes shop or something.

    I also think Apple got into bed with MS once and still feels somewhat sorry about it. After initial great support (IE on Mac is said to have been far better than the windos version) MS did to them what they do to everyone: Let them hang. I doubt that brings them much love from Apple.

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NF6X (725054) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @03:26AM (#30843488) Homepage

    Has Microsoft really damaged you so much that whatever they do meets so much resistance that the sheer *thought* of using a product would make you cringe?

    Yes. I hate everything about their software products. I will not use them unless I have no viable alternative, and I will go out of my way to use not-quite-viable alternatives instead if I have to.

    And on a related note, what should Microsoft do to regain your respect?

    Nothing. My respect is not available to them.

    On a social analogy, is a thief always a thief, even when he shows remorse and changed his ways?

    He may no longer be a thief, but I still won't trust him. There are plenty of other people who have not already demonstrated their untrustworthiness, so I can get by without that former thief just fine.

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:1, Insightful)

    by siloko (1133863) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @03:27AM (#30843496)
    But we don't make our decisions based purely on quality - for instance I buy fair trade coffee knowing full well it doesn't taste as good as Lavazza. So I guess people will continue to use Goggle because Microsoft have been raping the landscape for so long . . .
  • Re:Big Battle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by node 3 (115640) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @03:42AM (#30843566)

    On a social analogy, is a thief always a thief, even when he shows remorse and changed his ways?

    The thief will have always done the thieving, regardless of what he does later in life. In order for the thief to regain trust, he'll have to admit to that. Has Microsoft done that?

    Microsoft hasn't "shown remorse and changed their ways". And this is all assuming one accepts the premise that corporations deserve forgiveness or a second chance in the same way a human does. I'm not convinced they do. Not so readily or so easily, at least.

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nikker (749551) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @03:43AM (#30843574)
    Just because Microsoft might actually get off their collective asses for once in their lives doesn't get them a cookie in my book. You are talking about a multi billion dollar corporation that has done nothing but hinder an entire industry. There will always be competition where large sums of money are involved and Microsoft while being an extremely 'innovative' and cunning business wise they have coasted happily when it has become the path of least resistance product wise. The entanglement of these three massive companies so directly will evolve some amazing solutions across the board but thanking Microsoft for getting up for Google after they were pissing on their lawn doesn't get them any more from me then before. Microsoft is like a world heavy weight boxing champion that won't get off their chair to dance in the ring, sure they win but they put on a really shitty event. Now Google comes along and they finally have to get off the chair to connect a punch and we all become enthralled but we are supposed to thank a boxer for boxing? I don't think so.
  • by indiechild (541156) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @03:47AM (#30843596)

    I think the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. Of course Apple is going to negotiate with Google and Microsoft. They want to get a better deal, as John Gruber puts it:
    http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/apple_google_bing_search [daringfireball.net]

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pydev (1683904) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @04:11AM (#30843684)

    What happened to judging products on their merits? Has Microsoft really damaged you so much that whatever they do meets so much resistance that the sheer *thought* of using a product would make you cringe?

    Every single product I have ever bought from Microsoft has sucked to some degree (some more than others), so, yes, I do cringe.

    I gave Bing a serious try since I don't like all my data going to Google. And? Same thing as with other Microsoft products: it sounds good in theory, it has lots of features, but it doesn't do its primary function very well.

    See, people hate Microsoft not because of business strategy, they hate Microsoft because they don't like their products and Microsoft is using business strategy to force them to use those products anyway.

    I dislike Microsoft a lot less since their monopoly has started crumbling and I don't have to use them anymore.

  • Re:Blame Firefox (Score:2, Insightful)

    by garry_g (106621) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @04:51AM (#30843878)

    In the case of "poison" links, at least you see that you're at the wrong place ... and, as someone else stated, you can still copy the verbose link (i.e. text) from the google page ... still, just because Google uses JS to hide their clicktracking, Firefox isn't at fault for using the actual link ... one could maybe add another context-menu-entry in such cases to allow for copying either the HREF or the JS link ...

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:0, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 21, 2010 @05:31AM (#30844026)

    He may no longer be a thief, but I still won't trust him. There are plenty of other people who have not already demonstrated their untrustworthiness, so I can get by without that former thief just fine.

    And yet, when pirates claim they only download to try the product so they can buy it later and get their friends to buy it too, we're expected to believe him and defend his 'right to download' to the death.

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:2, Insightful)

    by wgoodman (1109297) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @05:42AM (#30844094)

    more of, there's been this one restaurant in town for a long time, but all they serve is shit. eventually, a few places open up that serve food instead. everyone flocks to those places and stops going to the place that only serves shit. eventually, the place that only served shit starts to also sell apple pie. and they start paying people to eat the apple pie. some of the people who had been eating apple pie at the non shit serving restaurants start eating the pie at the place that is paying them to eat it. the place that still serves mainly shit declairs that they are the best restaurant in town because people are flocking back to them.

    (obligatory)
    ???

    profit.

  • Bias in results (Score:3, Insightful)

    by polyp2000 (444682) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @05:43AM (#30844106) Homepage Journal

    Search
    "switching to ubuntu" on bing ,
    and then try Google.

    Googles first result is "switching to ubuntu from windows"
    Bings first result is "switching to ubuntu from OSX"

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BasilBrush (643681) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @06:05AM (#30844212)

    What happened to judging products on their merits? Has Microsoft really damaged you so much that whatever they do meets so much resistance that the sheer *thought* of using a product would make you cringe?

    I'm not the original poster, but for me, yes. It absolutely does matter what relationship I have with the company I buy products from. And I won't buy anything from Microsoft.

    And on a related note, what should Microsoft do to regain your respect?

    25 years into their dirty habits, they are beyond redemption. Hopefully they'll take a gradual fade into oblivion.

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rtfa-troll (1340807) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @06:10AM (#30844236)

    If I had moderator points, I would mod you up.

    You and so many people that forget how Microsoft got here. Any other search engine as garbage as MSN would have been forgotten by now. Microsoft has driven their search engines through many generations each of which was terrible. If there was real competition in the IT market, other search companies than MS would be able to compete with Google.

    The thing to remember is that Bing is great at everything except actually delivering search results. In your search results you want something you can trust and understand, but as we've discussed before [slashdot.org]. Even today, when Microsoft has tried to hide these problems, when you search for "Why is Microsoft Windows so expensive?" you'll find that on Microsoft's results the page "Why are Macs so expensive?" is high in the top ten whilst doing the same search on Google manages to find plenty more on topic material.

    Microsoft amnesia is astounding. Take the last example; Microsoft has biased results, they get caught; they change their results to hide the bias better. Within days we have postings [readwriteweb.com] all over the internet denying they were ever biased.

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 21, 2010 @06:17AM (#30844258)

    add to it, the punishment factor. a thief gets caught and gets punished. and he has his name blacklisted for sometime in the police gazette and possible future misbehavior. microsoft recently pulled off one of the most disgusting malpractices ever known - by scuttling ODF - corruption, vote rigging, bribing across the board, lying - you name it, and they have shown, they havent changed one bit. they mean business and they mean it by any ways possible.

    so ignore/ pardon microsoft at your own cost!!!!

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FreeUser (11483) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @06:31AM (#30844300)

    He may no longer be a thief, but I still won't trust him. There are plenty of other people who have not already demonstrated their untrustworthiness, so I can get by without that former thief just fine.

    Exactly right. As a middle-eastern friend of mine once said: "If someone steals from you, forgive them. But tie up your camel." Or put in more familiar terms: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Microsoft has fooled everyone at least once. Let them do it to you again, and you have only yourself to blame.

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 21, 2010 @08:36AM (#30844988)
    Great explanation. A great example with Bing specifically: you can't add your business listing to Bing unless you use Internet Explorer (according to the bing website). It will actually give you a message saying it won't work and doesn't go any further. But you know what? I changed the User Agent String in Safari using the developer tools and it worked just fine... That's strange, why wouldn't microsoft give me a warning that it might not be compatible and let me struggle with my inferior browser? Oh yes, because they want to maintain control over the browser market.
  • by Lorien_the_first_one (1178397) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @09:13AM (#30845314)
    To put this post in context, check out this video to see what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YExl9ojclo [youtube.com]

    In Microsoft's fantasy world, everyone uses Windows, Microsoft development tools and there is no competition. What could they do to regain my respect? Stop lying about their competition (especially Linux), drop their patents and lawsuit threats, embrace and support open standards without extending them with proprietary lock-in. Put customers first before the egos of executives and shareholders. Quit trying to embrace, extend and extinguish FOSS.

    Oh, and they could try making better software instead of spin.

    I know. They have a business model they are trying to support, and shareholders to satisfy. But their all-encompassing, over-arching, take-no-prisoners attitude has gotta go.
  • by jgagnon (1663075) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @09:32AM (#30845530)
    But life doesn't work that way. If someone is convicted of being a child molester 40 years ago and hasn't had a single "incident" since, I still wouldn't let them near my kids. That's an extreme example, but that's the way many people seem to think. In this case, Microsoft has a long history of abusing user and partner trust, so why should anyone believe anything they do now is trustworthy? It doesn't matter if they produce the "best product ever" because some (maybe even many) people will always consider their actions in the past as relevant to what they're doing now. And those people, historically, have good reason to be suspicious.
  • Re:Big Battle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IICV (652597) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @10:27AM (#30846302)

    They have stifled innovation for years (for an example see IE6 - allowed to totally stagnate once it had a dominant marketshare, only updated again once its share was threatened several years later).

    This is what's really insidious about Bing. What happens if Microsoft wins the current search engine wars, like they did the browser wars or the operating system wars? Will they keep on innovating, or will search stagnate for a decade?

    Whenever Microsoft wins, everyone else loses.

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 21, 2010 @10:56AM (#30846678)

    You don't understand the difference between a monopoly and a dominant market share, do you?

  • Browser defaults (Score:3, Insightful)

    by phorm (591458) on Thursday January 21, 2010 @11:28AM (#30847094) Journal

    Notwithstanding the idea of google being a "nice, new cafe", you forgot the part where the own the maker of your car's GPS, or whatever, and when you look up any food the GPS defaults to setting your route to their restaurant.

    Would Bing be nearly as big if it weren't the default search engine in IE? I doubt it. Having an alliance between MS and Apple making it default on iPhones makes it even worse...

  • Re:Big Battle (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 21, 2010 @03:22PM (#30850492)

    "why ipod is better than zune" on Bing yields "10 Reason Why the Zune is Better Than the iPod" as number 1. I'm sure the list goes on and on.

Long computations which yield zero are probably all for naught.

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