Bing Search Tainted By Pro-Microsoft Results 582
bdcny7927 writes "Just as Bing is gaining popularity, some disturbingly pro-Microsoft and anti-Apple search results are rearing their ugly heads. Case in point: a search on Bing for the phrase, 'Why is Windows so expensive?' returned this as the top link: 'Why are Macs so expensive.' That's right. You're not hallucinating."
So what, it's MS's service... (Score:5, Informative)
Not on my bing (Score:3, Informative)
Search string: "Why is Windows so expensive?"
Results:
* ...
Microsoft to offer Family Pack for Windows 7 Home Premium | TalkBack
If so don't PC users ask WHY is Windows so expensive? Cheapest upgrade for Win 7 is 50 and that's temporarily for early adopters (119 later) Snow Leopard is only 29 for all Leopard ...
o talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12354-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=66314&messageID=1250260
o Cached page
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MacNN | Acer: Home Premium is the real Vista
"Hmmm, I'll have to think about that... Why is Windows so expensive?" "That's the Microsoft tax." "Doesn't e v e r y b o d y use Windows?" "Not anymore."
o www.macnn.com/articles/06/10/27/acer.on.windows.vista
o Cached page
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Do you need more than Windows 7 Home Premium? | TalkBack on ZDNet
If so don't PC users ask WHY is Windows so expensive? Cheapest upgrade for Win 7 is 50 and that's temporarily for early adopters (119 later) Snow Leopard is only 29 for all Leopard ...
o talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12354-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=66219&messageID=1249894
o Cached page
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Rittman Mead Consulting Blog Archive Virtually there
I suppose the next thing is to build a Windows VM for the stuff that needs Microsoft Windows (OBI SE-ONE, for example) - but why is Windows so expensive to license? ...
o www.rittmanmead.com/2007/11/21/virtually-there
o Cached page
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PC World Community: Hollywood's Victory Over The Pirate Bay
Why is Windows so expensive to buy in a box, when Dell can buy it in bulk for a couple dollars? How much money does Bill Gates need? What is fair trade? ...
o forums.pcworld.com/message/209250
o Cached page
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PC World Community: Windows XP User: I'm No Thief
At least I think it is. Why is windows so expensive in the first place? They're totally ripping us off!!
o forums.pcworld.com/thread/60075?start=30&tstart=0
o Cached page
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ffextensionguru.wordpress.com - Traffic Details from Alexa
why is windows so expensive; new tab homepage; guru blog; the book of mozilla; mozilla weekly; ie 8 windows update; primo pdf; tabs open relative; flash player updates
o www.alexa.com/siteinfo/ffextensionguru.wordpress.com
Re:Boring Story (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, the mac link appears under the google results. However, the other top google results are all about the Windows OS. The bing results has NO results about Windows OS on the first page.
Re:Not on my bing (Score:3, Informative)
When I searched I got several things like "why are macbooks so expensive", "why are mac's [sic] so expensive" etc.
The article is correct. Bing is just the fox news of search engines. Surprise surprise.
Re:Boring Story (Score:5, Informative)
Hey Slashdot, how about covering the fact that KDE 4.3 [kde.org] was just released today?
Ops. [slashdot.org]
yeah, but.... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/why-are-macs-so-expensive--609128
Re:Yes, but... (Score:3, Informative)
actually, like gold, it's scarcity (natural or artificial), combined with demand.
gold is a pretty useless metal outside of the electronics industry. even when a low reactivity metal is required, platinum is a lot more usefull. the thing with gold is that it's a beutifull metal. only gold, copper and cesium fall outside the white-many shades of grey-black color spectrum, but since copper oxidizes in an ugly brown color and cesium explodes in contact with moisture, gold is the only alternative when you want something colorfull and pretty to wear on your neck or wrist, this makes it desired and expensive.
Macs are the same thing. they stands out on look alone, and they keep their shine longer than other brands, this makes macs higly desirable. and since apple have a monopoly on macs, they become scarce, thus expensive.
i bought one to my mother some years ago. they're not so muche easier to use than windows or linux with KDE. all this "intuitiveveness" of Mac OS X is just apples reality distortion field at work. won't fall for that anymore, just like i don't buy golden bling.
They're just giving preference to yahoo answers (Score:4, Informative)
It's not specifically pro-MS or anti-Apple. It's just that whatever their ranking algorithm is rates yahoo answers as a better source than other sites. Search engines have to weight sites somehow; if all sources of pages were equally good authorities, we'd all still be using altavista.
Re:Mod entire article down (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, yes. On the main page, click the minus sign next to the title. You can then pick why you don't like it.
Theoretically if enough people do it, we could kick it back off the front page. That seems unlikely in this case though.
Re:And? (Score:3, Informative)
Synax differences (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Not on my bing (Score:3, Informative)
Hmmm... if you read TFA, apparently these dubious results have a habit of disappearing when someone points them out.
Re:Not on my bing (Score:3, Informative)
Given that Google provides results that *are* relevant without the quotes, and bing does not- I'd say that yes, it is in fact Microsoft's fault that their search engine fails to provide the expected results in response to a query.
Putting quotes around something strongly restricts your query- by doing so you don't gain access to sites that may be about the same topic but have slightly different wording. I'd guess that very, very few people regularly enclose their entire queries- especially question-type queries- in quotes.
Re:Not on my bing (Score:5, Informative)
You've been marked "informative" but I think the phrase "can't read" is more appropriate. If you Read The Frakking Article, it states that Bing is now returning non-biased results, due to their old biased system being exposed publicly.
Apparently Microsoft programmers did some quick cover-up, like a bunch of 1940s-era Germans digging-up bodies and burning them to hide the evidence. Microsoft was exposed by the media, and now MS is trying to pretend it never happened.
Re:Nothing New (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Don't be Evil (Score:3, Informative)
For the Mac result:
On bing US, it's the first result. On bing UK, it's the third.
However, seeing as the Mac result mentions Windows in the text, it doesn't surprise me that it shows up in Google's first page.
The difference is, Google shows you what you're actually looking for first (the first 4 results), rather than doing some shenanigans that basically say:
"That's not what you really meant to search for....you're looking for this unrelated thing over here....."
With Bing, 3 of the top 5 results are about why Macs are expensive, and only 1 is related to Windows, and only tangentially at that, as it's dealing with Windows hosting providers, rather than Windows itself.
With Google, 4 of the top 5 are dealing with the expense of MS Windows, and the other (5th place) is about vinyl windows being expensive.
The vinyl windows listing is on both Google and Bing, so that's obviously an easy mistake to make, which I could perfectly understand even without checking the results.
So the top 5 results for this query (Why is windows so expensive):
Bing:
Mac pricing X 3
Windows web hosting X 1
Vinyl windows X 1
Google:
Windows pricing X 4
Vinyl windows X 1
Make a little more sense why people are bitching about it now?
This is all from US versions of both sites. The Canadian version of Google lists the exact same top 5 as the US version, but Bing Canada is on crack. The same search comes up with:
1. Vinyl Windows
2. Macs are expensive.
3. Why is healthcare expensive on Youtube.
4. Why is OSS commercial software expensive.
5. Is Windows getting more expensive?
Incidentally, if you read this last link, it's an article that states that Windows is selling for roughly the same price now as Windows 98 did, so accounting for inflation, it's actually cheaper. Go figure.
Re:And? (Score:3, Informative)
Because it leads to distrust. Distrust leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much distrust in you.
But seriously, it's not just the first link, the entire page is links to articles of why Macs are so expensive. Do that in google and you get Why Windows Vista and Office 2007 are so Expensive [wordpress.com]. And you could argue "Yeah but a Microsoft search engine is not going to say their own software is expensive", but if you google why does google suck [google.com] and you get whydoesgooglesuck.com [whydoesgooglesuck.com].
Might be just a fluke though, binging (is that a word yet? "Binging"?) Why does Vista suck [bing.com] and you get lots of great articles, but then a search of why does Windows 7 suck [bing.com] and you get nothing relevant compared to the google search [google.com] that has 7 things we hate about Windows 7 [gizmodo.com] as the first link.
Grow up Microsoft. If you don't give me the info I want I'll go somewhere else.
Re:And? (Score:5, Informative)
Google (Score:2, Informative)
Seen this... (Score:1, Informative)
Seen this, it's easy to find, especially in smaller non-urban areas.
All I have to do is search for "Mac tech support + my area code" , or "Apple tech support + my area code" to see this.
There are 2 Apple Authorized providers in my area, myself and one other small shop.
Bing returns results for a bunch of hole-in-the-wall computer shops, some I've never even heard of, none are Apple Authorized. All but one of their sites fail to mention *anything* about Apple or Macs.
Which is why I don't/won't use Bing.
Screw you Ballmer!!! *shakes fist*
Re:And? (Score:3, Informative)
There's a side by side comparison site - Google and Bing in two frames [blackdog.ie]. Just type in something inflammatory like "OS X beats Windows 7" without the quotes and see what comes up. Google's first is "Mac OS X 10.6 Beats Windows 7 in Amazon Pre-Orders". Bing's first is "Windows 7 Better than Mac OS X Leopard in Security, Says Microsoft COO".
That's not what I asked for.
Re:And? (Score:3, Informative)
I put the query on Bing.com and the Mac one was the 7th link... And on google it's the 8th ... I don't see any validity to this ...
Since it's always possible you're right, I put the query on Bing.com and the Mac on was first just like everyone else is seeing. On google it is in fact 8th.
I see no validity to your post. As in, I think you're full of shit.
Re:And? (Score:4, Informative)
well, it does *now*, everyone's started linking to it in their "why is Bing so biased", and "Bing is rubbish", and "Why Bing isn't biased after all, honest, no really" blog articles.
Re:And? (Score:5, Informative)
This article is garbage ... put the same query on the google search and almost the same results come up. Including Why are Macs so Expensive...
You are either delusional or full of crap. They are nothing alike.
... ... ... can save money by buying more advanced parts for a windows computer. Also, they are expensive ... ... If I feel like Sony are charging too much for a Laptop with Windows I can get a ...
... ... ...
This is the result from Bing:
News about Why is Windows so expensive
Why are Mac's So Expensive? - Yahoo! Answers
why so expensive?. - Games for Windows Live
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest? Find answers to this and many other questions on Trulia Voices, a community for you to find and share local
Why are windows hosting providers so expensive? - Community Server
Community Server is the platform that powers rich blogging, discussions, and sharing web communities.
Why are Macbooks so expensive? - Yahoo! Answers
WikiAnswers - Why are Apple Macs so expensive
Apple and Mac question: Why are Apple Macs so expensive? Macs are no more expensive
Windows Embedded Blog : Why is OSS Commercial Software So Expensive?
Why are Macs so expensive? - TechSpot Troubleshooting
Why are Macs so expensive?
Why are Macs so expensive? techradar.com â" There are some good reasons not to choose a Mac when you
Why fish is so expensive! - Windows Live
This is the result from Google:
Why Windows Vista and Office 2007 are so Expensive  The Firefox
Is Windows getting more expensive? - CNET News
Windows 7 to be âoemore expensiveâ than Vista, XP
Writing on the Wall: Why Windows is so expensive
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest
Omfg Vista Is so Expensive - Windows Vista and Windows 7
Why are HDTV wall mounts so expensive?
Why is the IBM thinkpad x301 laptop so expensive with mediocre
Why are Macs so expensive? | News | TechRadar UK
Gizmodo - The World's Most Expensive Copy of Windows XP - XP
I am not sure how you got modded +5 insightful, but the only article in common is the "Why are Macs so expensive?" from TechRadar. Microsoft's results are obviously significantly skewed. I would encourage you to "get the facts"!
Re:And? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:And? (Score:3, Informative)
Oh, I'm sure a win-win on one level. On the other hand, if they end up with an engine that no-one uses because they find more satisfying answers to their questions elsewhere ... well, it seems a little short-termist to me.
See, as I see it, this is how search engines die: the adulterated their service for short term gain. Alta Vista choked on sponsored results, and on sponsored results that pretended to be geniune. Ask Jeeves was the same. It doesn't take long before people move to (or back to) an engine that actually tries to stay on topic, rather than setting its own agenda.
You know, I think this is where people go wrong. The reasoning seems to be as follows:
I don't think the logic holds.
I think they forget that Google built a brand and their market dominance on providing good search results - results that closely matched what the user was looking for. They forget that while it may be adverts that bring the revenue into Google, it was the quality of Google's search results that first put those adverts in front of eyeballs.
If anyone seriously wants to unseat Google as the search king, they're going to have to offer a service that more nearly does what the users want than Google does at the moment. I'm not at all convinced that it's possible to do that while still distorting the search indices for sort term gain. I guess time will tell.
Re:And? context is not considered (Score:3, Informative)
"Looking out of the windows of the expensive Manhattan apartment..." satisfies the query results and seems like MS is deflecting results. The problem is compounded by MS using common nouns like "Windows" or "explorer" or "server" or "word" or "works" for their product names. I search for results on "sql server" and it brings up Oracle's SQL server and the Postgres SQL server and Sybase and all of the others. "Why is SQL Server expensive" could come up with any number of rival software companies simply due to this quirk of the marketing department.
I honestly don't think it's that intentional. "Why are Macs so expensive" legitimately could contain a comparison "... makes Macs more expensive than Windows". In this case, both brands are equal distance from "expensive", so the article would seem to be relevant to either result. Simply including "more expensive than Windows" makes it even more likely that an algorithm which includes distance thinks it is relevant to Windows more so than Macs.
--
A pet theory of mine I'm still working on: Looks like google weights certain words, and Bing hasn't learned this yet (or gets it wrong).
For example, you want to search "Why is Windows so expensive". The top-weighted words should be the noun "Windows", followed by "expensive". You don't want one without the other.
Since you're looking for an explanation, "why" should also carry a small weight. It's more likely to answer your question if the page has "and that's why windows is..." or "A lot of people asked my why... and so here is my answer" or the rhetorical "Why is ...?" or even "which is why..." So you seemingly get Bing results of "expensive" without the "windows" part.
I would expect a subtitle or heading to have more weight than text in the article, so maybe MS is not weighting H1 more than normal P or SPAN or DIV text. Overall, i think it's just a dismal failure of the algorithm due to immaturity rather than anything intentional.